avanti

Hi everyone, Avanti here again. So.... in the course of gathering information about the 172 trip, I was introduced to another pilot at the same ferry company who has crossed the atlantic 10 times in a piston single this year alone. This pilot is taking a Cessna 182T to Eastern Europe in a couple of weeks. I have to be honest, I am still very interested in learning how to do an atlantic crossing, and going with this pilot could be a great opportunity. I am thinking of asking if I could go along. What does everyone think of my latest crazy idea?

--The plane is turbocharged, certified to 25,000 feet.
--It has a TKS anti-icing system installed, with 2 hours of anti-icing capability
--The route is the northern route, via Greenland and Iceland
--It is a brand new, G1000 equipped aircraft with less than 30 hours TT

Besides just general discussion- can anyone answer the following:
--What backup handheld GPS do you specifically recommend, and why?
--How cold is it in Iceland and Greenland in the winter?
--How do I rent a liferaft or immersion suit?
--Does anyone have a recommendation on a GPS-equipped personal locator beacon?
--What kind of potty products do you recommend for a woman?
--Has anyone flown a C182T in ice, and used the TKS? How effective is it?
--What sources do you recommend for gathering wx info for the route?

I know, I just won't give it up. Humor me =)

727C47

please don't go over the n atlantic single engine in the winter,with anybody !!! even Lindbergh waited till May !!! Buon Natale girlfriend !

NZAV8R

--What backup handheld GPS do you specifically recommend, and why? Garmin 296/396/496; value, performance, reliability, compact design, range of database options

--How cold is it in Iceland and Greenland in the winter? cold and very cold

--How do I rent a liferaft or immersion suit? ---> try here

--Does anyone have a recommendation on a GPS-equipped personal locator beacon? ---> 406 Mhz ELT

--What kind of potty products do you recommend for a woman?These (kidding, well sort of)more info

--Has anyone flown a C182T in ice, and used the TKS? How effective is it? read this and this
--What sources do you recommend for gathering wx info for the route? ---> NWS and Nav Canada

On another note...

Hi! I just got offered a job to ferry a powered parachute to the north pole. I no idea where that is. should I take it? I haven't flown in one yet but it runs on mogas and that's cheap. and it's got a light so I'll be able to see in the dark, so I'm good to go. does anyone know the best way to get there?

Sniper

First off, I'd try to see what guys like "seoceancrosser" say. Most of us have plenty of crossings, but in heavy jets, or at least in jets. Not to discount what we all think - but we all think you're crazy!

Why do you need to know all this stuff, though? Isn't the guy who's flying the plane going to have a hand-held back-up GPS (and another way to navigate too, since loss of GPS satellite reception has been brought up)? Shouldn't he know about the life raft and immersion suit (he's got a raft already worked out, right?).

This is a better way of going about it your first time, going with an experienced crosser, and in a more capable aircraft too (but still, it's far short in capability of what most of us would consider prudent. Is this aircraft known ice approved? The TKS installation can be done both ways). You should contact this guy and ask him these questions, and then post to the board. If he doesn't know the answers off the top of his head, though, then you should probably consider backing out - your first crossing, if it must be in the winter in a single piston, should be a cautious one, even with an experienced pilot.

Here's some other ideas for the urine thing http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=p-mate&tag=200719-20&index=blended&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9 325 This might be a pretty big sticking point, actually. How comfortable is this guy with you going with him, just based on the male/female thing - and how comfortable are you with it? There's not much privacy in a 182, and throw in immersion suits, which you better be wearing fully, not just 1/2 way up - I think you two will know each other intimately by the time this is over. And if you have to do a #2 . . .

As far as the weather, check out http://weather.yahoo.com/Greenland/GLXX/regional.html. "Sukkertoppen" is just an example of the weather (it's listed in 'Fate is the Hunter' as an airport in Greenland). Here's the current METAR:

BGMQ 261150Z AUTO 34010KT 310V040 9999NDV SCT140/// BKN180/// M09/M12 Q0983 REFZRA

I'll be honest, I don't even know what the "RE" in "REFZRA" means (anyone want to tell me?), but I know what the FZRA means, and it's not something I'd want to fly a 182 in (or even a 747), that's for sure, even if its approved for flight into known ice.

Here's the METAR for Nuuk, the largest city in Greenland:
BGGH 261150Z 04021KT 0600 +SN VV008 M08/M09 Q0979

Yeah . . . you are NOT going to make it in there, either.

How about Kangerlussuaq, the major airport in Greenland:

BGSF 261150Z 27007KT 9000 -SN SCT030 BKN050 M14/M16 Q0991

The best of the 3, by far, but the TAF looks iffy, and, given how fast the weather changes, who knows if the forecast will show up.

Go to The Airport Guide for general info on airports, including weather, overfly permits, fuel providers, etc. You've got to join to see some of it, but it give you most info for free, it seems.

Hopefully someone who's done this stuff can be of more assistance to you.

Keep us informed on the progress, and the thought process.

--
After all that, I still wouldn't touch this trip with a 10 foot pole. Just wait till summer to cross the atlantic in a SE piston, if you must. In the mean time, go ferry over land, in VFR and get some experience flying in winter weather.

Good luck in your decision.

ewrbasedpilot

Pretty sure it means RECENT Freezing Rain.........definitely not C-172 type of weather.

ewrbasedpilot

I've heard there's a dude with a reindeer that has a flashing beacon for a nose (kinda weird if you ask me and just how does he power that nose???) . He should be home by now, so just look for that flashing red light and you should be good to go. Have fun!

DeadHead

I hear Reindeer Tears are nature's most powerful deicing fluid.

supersix-4

Avanti, there's alot of good if not great advice here in this thread. It looks like you want to do this trip regardless.Truth is, You'd probably live longer playing Russian roulette for 15 minutes each day.

Roll Inverted and Pull

Look little lady...you come to this web site that is populated by vastly experienced aviators and ask your question. At least half of the pilots here (me included) warn you in every way possible not to try this dangerious, stupid activity. You have absolutely no experience...none.. and you seem determined, even after being warned in every way possible not to try this foolish activity. This seems to be the perfect example of Darwinism at its finest. Sure, there are several folks that tell you to go for it. As my mother, and everyone else`s mother has told them over the years "If Johnny jumps off of a bridge, does that mean that you should also?" I`ll say nothing else about your foolish quest.

Cubdriver

Cessna Caravan 208/208B is the only current production airframe in the ASEL category I know of with known-ice certification using TKS, although I think Mooney has it as a retrofit option. All other add-ons are not certified, and you are the test pilot if you use them. It would be madness to launch into known icing conditions with anything other than an FAA-certified known ice system. Generally, even the certified systems are considered "ice flee" systems rather than ice-flying systems in regard to their use on single engine aircraft.

This explains it better than I can: Safety Advisor No. 22

There are many ways a "non-hazard" (ie. non-certified) anti/deice system can fail. By getting the ice off the wings and a few other places on the airplane, there is no guarantee the airplane is safe in ice. It is probably unsafe in ice until it is tested thoroughly.

Examples of some things that may have an effect are, air and fuel flows to the engine, engine cooling, and accumulation of ice on unprotected surfaces. TKS is a great design but it has to be specifically tested and certified for a particular airframe to be any good. This is very expensive testing and most manufacturers will not go for it unless they can sell a lot of airplanes with the system to make up the extra cost.

As you can imagine, the cost of certification is not readily borne by the typical customer of an ASEL design nor do such customers cross the northern Atlantic in winter very much. If a system like TKS is approved for an airframe like the C182, this only means it has been proven that the system will not have any adverse effect on the airplane and it says nothing about whether it will actually clear any ice. The airplane may very well be un-iceworthy, and you are the test pilot.