TonyC

NO.



Just, NO.




Under the best of circumstances, what you're contemplating is dangerous and complicated. This is nowhere close to the best of circumstances, and pretty darn close to the worst. The questions you've asked betray a level of experience (inexperience) that doesn't belong over the North Atlantic in a piston single in the middle of the winter.

Unless you want to pass along a life insurance benefit to someone, please, pass on this "opportunity." There are other ways to learn. Ride along with someone in a larger airplane in the summer. Learn the procedures under safER circumstances. This is not the time or place to try to learn.

Sometimes the kindest answer is NO. This is one of those times.






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captjns

Seems to me that a bunch of people are not thinking clearly about this whole thing. Why not takes the wings off, and crate the beer can and ship by boat to India. Could be cheaper given the price of fuel, ferry insurance, and time on the engine and airframe... Unless the owner has it overly insured against any fortuitous events.

Blkflyer

If your customer needs the aircraft that bad.. LET THEM take the wings off and SHIP it..

xkuzme1

If you are delivering it to India, why not go West. The trip will be longer, but you and the airplane will probably actually arrive.

You can still do the job and do it well.

HercDriver130

Let me ask this... are you prepared to shoot an approach into Kef below minimums with blowing snow and huge crosswinds... are you prepared to land at Lajes or Santa Maria...no matter WHAT the wx..... do you even have clearance to fly into the countries you are wanting to fly into or over... its NOT like flying in the US.... not by a long shot. And let me say... doing this without an AP would be crazy and thats probably the least of your worries. I cant imagine doing this type of ferry this time of year.... you weather windows will be small and I have seen the weather at all of those places... well never been to southern Greenland but I have been to Thule, Kef, Goose Bay, Lajes and the wx FORECAST can change dramatically in just an hour or two.... I have seen Goose go from 10 miles and 10000 ovc to 1/2 mile and blowing snow in less than an hour......ALL of these places can have nasty wx that sets up for DAYS or weeks.....

As for Ice... if you were to go the northern route.... you may not be able to decend to an altitude where the air was above freezing....even very low above the water could be at or below freezing and DARK much of the 24 hour clock at that..... and again..no AP..... no way no how.....

UAL T38 Phlyer

avanti:

I've flown the Atlantic numerous times in 747s. Not a big deal, other than dealing with the particulars of non-radar-environment air traffic control and position reporting. Still, we did a lot of weather-prep, mostly for the "What ifs."

I've also done them in the F-4 Phantom--7 or 8 times. It has a radar (unfortunately, better at painting weather than enemy fighters), some anti-ice (for the engine), afterburners, and the ability to (in theory) climb above most weather (30,000 ft+).

We never approached these trips lightly in the Phantom. We followed a tanker all the way across, because we refueled every 45 minutes to an hour--to keep the tanks full. Why? In case the tanker went bad, or your wingman trashed the refueling boom, you'd have enough gas to divert someplace. The divert options often just barely met minimums.

We wore anti-exposure suits--"poopy-suits" in Air Force parlance. They called them that because it is a crappy deal to wear them. It chafes your neck like getting a hickey from a pad of steel wool, and it isn't easy to get your noodle out of the water-tight zipper to take a leak. For you, a whole different problem.

So, why did we wear the miserable things?

Because the average water temp of the North Atlantic in winter is 26-28 degrees F.

If we had to bail out, the anti-exposure suit gives you 3 minutes of useful dexterity/conciousness to get into your life raft. If you couldn't get in the raft in 3 minutes, you never would...you'd lose consciousness and drowning would soon follow.

Without the poopy suit? 30 seconds. Think about that.

If you ditched in a 172, I don't think you could get out of the water in less than 3 minutes, and I think you would be lucky to get your raft out of the sinking hulk. You'll be a human popsickle. Keep in mind that wave heights may exceed 30 feet, as you sit, cold, wet, in a raft with a poopy suit, your ELT and sat-radio at the bottom of the ocean, thinking, 'Damn, if I didn't have this suit on, I could just die and get this over with....'

I love adventure. I'm not trying to steal a great learning opportunity from you. I want you to live long enough to get to do the great adventures of life.

Don't do this.

navigatro

I was taught that a "poopy" suit was so named because you would poo and pee in it, if you could not hold it.

328dude

I've done the northern crossing in a DO-328 a few times, but I just have a question. With all that gas on there, what's your useful load? I'm no wizz on survival equipment or rafts, but the one we rented was huge and very heavy. Do they make stuff small enough for SE ops?

OBTW, wait till spring if at all. Keflavic is not fun in January.

seoceancrosser

Hey pal. I have 22 single engine Atlantic ocean crossing, 7 of which have been in 172's. Feel free to PM for my contact information. I have never ferried in the winter, but I can tell you the best course of action and what to look for. I'm not gonna type all that mess out because I don't want to take the time. Also if you ferrying for Don or Geoff, then just walk away now. You will thank me in the long run.

UAL T38 Phlyer

navigatro:

That is the other explanation I've heard...I just like the one I used better... I don't actually know anyone who has taken a dump in a poopy suit.

BTW, I loved your "Moped from Baghdad to Tehran" analogy!