IceDirector

I am giving a speech in my Speech class. Originally my main focus was on Sully and researching about training pilots go through. I will admit that I have no experience as a pilot and am more naïve about pilots than I wish I were. Because of this I spoke to a friend who works for Northwest whom enlightened me a bit.

I found that what I should talk about is a pilots schedule and how some airlines are really "flying the **** out of their pilots." So I was curious as to whether anyone can enlighten me a little more about your schedules. I also wanted to talk how pilots should really be paid more for what they do, therefore I was curious as to what the average pay for pilots are.

Thanks for your help!

kalyx522

As far as pay, there is a pay scale on Airline Pilot Central for all the airlines. You need to remember that the actual hourly pay might seem high or decent, but we don't get paid like normal hourly workers (getting paid for every hour you are at work.. which generally is like 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week.) These days especially, most of us are getting paid at monthly guarantee (75 hrs) or a little above.
I am a regional FO. I'd say pay for someone in my position ranges from as low as 17k to as high as 45k, depending on year of service and the airline they fly for. I am betting that there are much more FOs earning on the lower range than the higher. I am starting my third year and I will probably be grossing 25k for 2008. I work for one of the crappier regionals (low pay, poor work rules), so another FO with the same hire date as me at ASA for example, would probably make 10k more, easy. (which is obviously still too low for a third year airline pilot.)

I don't really care about the company flying the crap out of me. (which isn't even a concern nowadays with the reduced flying.) Because you could fly 95 hrs in a month and still spend a lot less time at work than someone who flew 60 hrs. It has to do with how efficient your duty day is. Flying a lot doesn't tire me out, having a long duty day DOES. The problem is that it's legal for us to work 16 hr days. I don't know about other airlines but mine uses this rule to their advantage for sure. I would much, much rather fly 7 hrs in a 10 hr workday than fly 4 hours in a 15 hr work day. Obviously because you get paid more, but more important, it just shouldn't be legal for pilots to be at work for 16 hrs straight! Often by the 13, 14th hour I'm pooped. You would think actually flying would tire you out more, but no... all that sitting around time totally drags down your energy and makes you even more tired than if you were actually at the controls. I mean how can someone be allowed (even encouraged) to operate machinery (with lots of people on board said machinery) after having been at work for 15 hrs............ I could never understand how the law could allow for that. It just never ceases to bewilder me.
Reduced rest is another rule I despise but that's another story.

This probably varies from airline to airline. But at my regional, most of the lines are not productive at all (meaning long work days with not many flying hours) and I think that's what needs to change, not the amount of hours we fly.

UpThere

One of the scheduling problems we face as a pilot is getting our circadian rhythm out of whack. Most "normal" people get up in the morning, go to work, come home, go to bed, with other activities in between. Flying on the back side of the clock, i.e. all night can really wear you down. Also, swtiching between early and late flying times back to back. An example of that would be getting up a 5am on day 1 to fly from 6:30 am until 6:30 pm. Then, on day 2 you don't report to fly until 2:30 pm and you finish at 3:00 am. These are the type of things that wear you down and also have an overall effect on your health. Something else you might want to mention in your speech in the fact that the NTSB has made reccomendations for the FAA to change the hours of flying, hours to remain on duty, and rest requirements for pilots. The FAA has not changed these regulations in decades.

kalyx522

that's a really good point. at colgan we have these lines where the first half the month you are doing 2 PM show time and working till 11:30 PM... and then the latter half of the month you are 5 AM show times (working 5 AM to 2 PM for example). or the first two days of the week is an afternoon/night shift and then the last day of the week is a early morning shift. so we have to stay up until midnight one day and then a day or two later, be able to go to sleep at 8 PM. completely unnatural and almost impossible.

Eck4Life

While we are talking about rules concerning fatigue try this story on for size. You will have to forgive me for minor informational mistakes as it has been awhile.

I used to live in Seattle. In the late 1990's ( I believe pretty close to 2000) a ferry boat captain fell asleep at the helm and rammed into the 520 floating bridge that spans Lake Washington causing significant damage. I didn't think too much of it as I know humans are humans and mistakes happen. Upon reading the reports about it afterwards my eyebrows started to raise as a professional pilot. The local media was in an uproar of course trying to assign blame. As I remember, the paper said that the boat captain had been on duty past the federally mandated 12 hour daily maximum and the NTSB had attributed that as a major contributing factor. I don't know jack squat about maritime regulations, but if true what an unbelievable paradox. Here we are, as professional pilots, carting around hundreds of people in three dimensions at 500 kts in all sorts of weather while the boat captain is doing maybe 15 kts in two dimensions in a 100' ship (at best) on a moderately sized landlocked body of water and his duty day limit is more conservative than ours which stands at 16 hours. Does that make sense? It is clear who has some pull in DC.

IceDirector

You guys have been extremely helpful. Thank you. This is all very interesting stuff. Do you mind if I quote you at all in my speech?

kalyx522

no, you could even read it off with those loudspeaker horn thingys from top of a building if you'd like.

Eck4Life

Be my guest. While your at it, why don't you mention that pilots are at work closer to 80 hrs per week and make a fraction of what people think. I currently work for a major airline. I've been an airline pilot for almost a decade (been flying much longer than that all together) and have only made more than $60k one of those years and then just barely. Please remind them that the $200 coast-to-coast tickets have to cost somebody something. To put it into perspective, people are always outraged how little teachers are paid. I live on the west coast and our former neighbors were both teachers. They both are at work about 35 hrs per week and they get every holiday in the book off. Plus 2 weeks around Xmas and another week in March. Not to mention the entire summer where they sit on their rear ends. They each are in there mid-30s and make $50k+ each. They will retire at 53 after putting in their 30 yrs while I will probably have to bust ass until 65 (no fault of my own, I promise you). They will have a pension that gives them close to 100% pay until the day they die. I have no pension (or guaranteed weekends or holidays off for that matter). I have very specialized skills that have been honed by years of practice and study. I am subject to multiple medical exams, performance evaluations, and drug tests every year on zero notice. I have to make an appointment days in advance to observe the performance of my 2nd grader's teacher. They have no one's life in their hands. I (we) have hundreds at a time. After relaying this to your professor/class please ask them if the price they paid for their last airline ticket was really that out of line (especially when they couldn't have driven it for less than three times the price and, oh yeah, it would have taken a week in each direction).

Diver Driver

Eck, well said sir.

Swedish Blender

Doesn't matter where you are, all airlines screw with your sleep. I just spent 19 days in SE Asia. I had 4 crossings (16 hour time zone difference between departure and arrival points) and several in theater legs. The inter Asian legs were a mix of day and night local which is 12 or 13 hours opposite my body clock at home (Florida).