I am new here, and would like to be a pilot, but why are there so many people saying "Don't be a airline pilot!" "Don't be a fractional pilot!" "Don't be a pilot, the industry is in the trash!" "Don't be a pilot, it too time consuming, expensive and ruins your family life!"

I am serious, more than half the people on this forum are against flying and discourage people to become what they have always dreamed of being. I read responces everyday that say "Flying will 1) outrageous debt
2) low pay for years 3) dreadful family life 4) and the wish to get out of this "career" asap". If that is true, then why are there so many people spending time on this forum and then going to work as a pilot?


Here is a quote from a post earlier today:

"Being a pilot is barely even a career these days, its more like a stepping stone to the unemployment line, or becoming a manager at starbucks. If I were you I would seriously consider not becoming a pilot, maybe get your private license and fly for fun, but look around these threads to see the real face of this "glamorous" lifestyle."

...ok, then why don't you get out of being a pilot and being what you really want to be.

 

The love for aviation gets beaten out of you day by day. Luckily I am not there yet and still love going to work. However when you go through what some of the guys on this forum have been through your rose colored glasses fade quickly. If you go into this job eyes wide open knowing you will have high debt low pay and crappy hours then its just what you expect of it and you may even have a good time while eating ramin noodles. If you come into the airlines thinking this is going to be better than winning the lotto then you will be very disappointed. Lastly it also has to do with your attitude as a person. Some people like to complain more than others. Pilots are mostly the first half of the last sentence.

 

CaptKrunch is right, most pilots do like to complain. Some more than others, but I have earned the right to complain. First of all, it's my first amendment right. Second, I have put many years of hard earned money and work into a career that has stolen the reward I worked so hard to get. For that, I blame the antiquated system that allows airlines leverage to impose new policies upon employees. From the outside, you see well respected pilots in uniform flying big shiny jets around having fun with a different lady in each zip code spending loads of money on things you see in magazines. In reality, many of us have families that depend on our income and benefits. More importantly, many of our families like to see us more than 2 days a week.

I read your post from another topic. Soon, the FAA will impose the requirement to have an ATP to get hired at an airline. A good corporate job is difficult to come by. First, you've almost always got to know somebody on the inside. Second, they're going to give preferential treatment to an applicant who is already typed in the equipment they fly. 1250 hours of dual given sounds like fun, but I guarantee it is work. I'm really too tired to explain anymore, but if your love of flying outweighs the abuse we endure, then by all means go for it. I still love flying airplanes, but I love myself and my family more.

 

The facts:

If you want to be a family man (or woman) who wants to be there for all of lil' Johnny's B-days, soccer games, holidays, etc. most jobs in aviation prohibit it, as will long haul trucking, the military, or working on an Alaskan fishing boat.

If you rack up $200k debt to get a $20k job, it will take a very long time to get out of debt (think 20 year mortgage).

If you make a job out of your hobby, your hobby will become work (no longer much fun).

On the other hand:

If you are single (like me), want to stay single (me again), or at least don't want to be joined at the hip to your family, being away is far less painful.

If you can get your tickets without gaining a ton of debt, $20k is livable if you can live in a cheap city (especially if you can live in a cheap base) and drive an older car.

While my love affair with flying has ebbed somewhat, now that I have a little seniority and have found a niche that I like, flying still beats digging ditches.



I think the problem many of the new complainers have is their vision of a "pilot's life" were unrealistic. Kinda like the folks I worked with in the Navy who took the word of the recruiter as gospel. The older complainers (15 plus years) are saying the same sort of things the autoworkers, steal workers, and other heavy industry workers are saying: "We helped build the company, we gave back to keep the company afloat, management asks for more, and we see more of our work outsourced" (in aviation, the regionals).

My biggest complaint is not the pay: I knew what I was getting into. Nor is it that my upgrade time as greatly increased (my company does not drive the economy). My complaint is that my company treats me like a brain dead child, something none of my previous employers have done. Oh well, I'll stay here for a while (I am still eating and paying the bills), but the second a job comes along that better meets my needs, I will jump ship.... but I will still be flying.

 

maybe i'm missing something, but i dont understand why aviation is such a hard career. I would get my 150-200 hours and be a CFI at the school where i got my liscence and just start racking up enough hours to get a job working as a 208 pilot for fed ex, rack up enough hours to be competitive in the fractional business.

Also, why are people in $200k debt?

 

Well tack on probably an extra 50 hours to your training idea, also factoring in a 4 year degree in whatever. After getting your CFI, the place you did your training probably isnt hiring, but for the sake of things lets say they bring you on. Lack of new students means all the instructors are struggling to make money to pay for living costs, loan payments, etc...and the CFI gig sits you there for probably 3 years because there just isnt a lot of flight time going on. Then a post for that Fedex job shows up...you and probably 200 other well qualified pilots every month are fighting to get in that 208, and there are some out there who will/are going to work for less money than you want. So you dont get the job and go back to flying a desk at your FBO crossing fingers that someone has money to blow or will get approved for a loan to start flight training.

In the mist of all that, you are living on credit cards and barely making monthly payments. After interest for a good 5 to 7 years, I think that answers the $200,000 question.

 

You have to realize most of the happy pilots are not on this website. My advice is to try and separate the facts from the romance when reading what people have to say at any rumor-based website. My first exposure to airline flying was largely through APC around 4 years ago, and on the basis of that I decided not to enter the airline industry with many of my friends. I credit APC for both encouraging me to fly and discouraging me from entering the industry in several areas that were destined to become difficult. For example, many regionals have furloughed their pilots, the same ones I was friends with who decided to go there. Many of them are well on their way to being tired of this industry now, if they are still in it at all, while I can honestly say that I still enjoy it. I was also interested in bush flying which after hearing what pilots had to say about it decided it was not for me. I never entered either industry, rather I found many other areas of commercial aviation to keep me busy such as flight instructing, charter, design engineering, flight test engineering, and skydiver flying.

 

Although less justified, complaints were common even during the "golden age" of good pay rates. Pilots would bid a higher-paying seat, grouse about the school, and then complain about being on reserve. We would chase equipment to another base and then beef about the commute. Even when things were getting better, they weren't improving fast enough. Had we known about the bleak future under deregulation, we would probably have gotten in a few pre-emptive squawks about that too.

 

So here is the bottom line...

Should I or should I not go into the aviation industry?

 

That is a question that only you can answer.

Sometimes people accuse me of being negative here, but I am simply extremely realistic and pragmatic. I don't actually complain about the profession...I have outside employment options and income and the luxury of managing my airline career around quality of life with little regard for money if I so chose. Works great for me, but I acquired some non-aviation skills before I got into this.

Most newbies have the traditional understanding of the airline career...very high pay, 22 days off /month, long layovers in all the best hotels in all the best cities. Of course those days are long, long gone for all but a small handful of pilots...and the managers are doing their darndest to ensure that none of the next generation of airline pilots ever has any of those perks.

A prospective airline pilot needs to become highly informed and do some serious soul-searching. You may ask yourself "if it's really so bad, why do all these people do it?" Most of the people in the industry today got in when things were much, much better...for many it would be too much effort to retrain, or they may not be able to afford to start over. But there are many folks currently flying who would not have signed up for the program today, including me. It is still in a decline and who knows where it will end?

My recomendations...

Get a college degree, preferably a marketable skill. Get a real job, then private pilot license. Fly around for fun.

If you absolutely love flying and are comfortable with giving up your job and benefits, then start saving money and working on your ratings. Do some serious financial analysis and make a budget for your first 5 years in aviation (you now have a realistic understanding of how much money you need to support your lifestyle). When you have your CFI rating(s) and enough savings, quit your job and start building time.

Stay informed about the industry...things like the ATP requirement for FO's and economic downturns should be factored into your timeline.

Bottom line, be informed. Know the realities of adult finances, know the industry, and know yourself. The airline profession seems great to children, but not always so much once you have grownup needs and responsibilities.

Also, don't get married unless your SO is willing to move around with you and has a portable job skill which will pay the bills (ex nurse, bartender, etc). You cannot reliably support a spouse and family until you have several years at an airline...and even then regionals can shrink dramatically with little notice.