Your FO might be thinking...
12-07-2009 | 04:29 PM
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
12-07-2009 | 07:02 PM
#12
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Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
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A checklist isn't complete until you say "xxx checklist complete". If you got an unacceptable reply, repeat the challenge or whole list if required. Do this a few times, and he/she will get the idea.
I flew with a nit-picker once. I told him I would monitor the rest of the trip. He asked me why, I said it seemed my technique did not meet his expectations, so I would watch and learn. After 6-7 legs, he decided I had learned enough, let me fly, and quit nagging.
I flew with a nit-picker once. I told him I would monitor the rest of the trip. He asked me why, I said it seemed my technique did not meet his expectations, so I would watch and learn. After 6-7 legs, he decided I had learned enough, let me fly, and quit nagging.
12-08-2009 | 04:12 AM
#13
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: My name is Roger Murdock, I'm the copilot!
If I may vent a bit:
Saying your response item to the challenge I'm reading off the checklist while I'm reading it is irritating. Stop it. Let me read it, then you say it. It wouldn't hurt you to look at the item I'm reading, too, before you blurt out the response. The point of this thing is to check things. Let's do that.
Unless you have a good reason to think I have just spaced out and forgotten to call ground at the spot, or call tower to tell them we're ready, or whatever, I don't need to be told when to call them. I've been in this seat on this airplane at this base flying to the same 12 airports over and over again for almost 3 years. I'm no Chuck Yeager, but I can radio our way out of this airport without your instruction.
Oh, we're pointing out every little thing the other does that's not the way we would have done it? Is that how this trip is going to go? Can I play too? If I'm doing something boneheaded, by all means, tell me. But you're about two comments away from getting the controls back, and I'll just sling gear for you, since you seem to think I can't decide when to descend when given discretion.
When approach asks if we want to try for the visual approach on a marginal day, I would appreciate the opportunity to voice my thoughts on the matter. Because my favorite thing ever is leaving a briefed and set up approach when we're a minute from the final course in order to go bouncing around in the bases waiting for that split second where we see the airport and have to do a split S to get to it. Nope, didn't look good, I guess we'll go back to what I briefed the first time. Even after I said "I'd rather shoot the approach," you insisted we could get the visual. Again, I'm about this far from just giving you the controls back, since you're clearly the only pilot on this airplane.
And I was going to try not to spend money on beer this month. There's always next month.
Saying your response item to the challenge I'm reading off the checklist while I'm reading it is irritating. Stop it. Let me read it, then you say it. It wouldn't hurt you to look at the item I'm reading, too, before you blurt out the response. The point of this thing is to check things. Let's do that.
Unless you have a good reason to think I have just spaced out and forgotten to call ground at the spot, or call tower to tell them we're ready, or whatever, I don't need to be told when to call them. I've been in this seat on this airplane at this base flying to the same 12 airports over and over again for almost 3 years. I'm no Chuck Yeager, but I can radio our way out of this airport without your instruction.
Oh, we're pointing out every little thing the other does that's not the way we would have done it? Is that how this trip is going to go? Can I play too? If I'm doing something boneheaded, by all means, tell me. But you're about two comments away from getting the controls back, and I'll just sling gear for you, since you seem to think I can't decide when to descend when given discretion.
When approach asks if we want to try for the visual approach on a marginal day, I would appreciate the opportunity to voice my thoughts on the matter. Because my favorite thing ever is leaving a briefed and set up approach when we're a minute from the final course in order to go bouncing around in the bases waiting for that split second where we see the airport and have to do a split S to get to it. Nope, didn't look good, I guess we'll go back to what I briefed the first time. Even after I said "I'd rather shoot the approach," you insisted we could get the visual. Again, I'm about this far from just giving you the controls back, since you're clearly the only pilot on this airplane.
And I was going to try not to spend money on beer this month. There's always next month.
Oh man, I so agree...
On the otherhand, I do appreciate all the tips and shortcuts that have been passed by those who I can tell only wish to make life easier. But your point is very well taken!
12-08-2009 | 06:25 AM
#14
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Joined: Oct 2009
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From: Baron B-55 Left Seat
I am quite hard-headed but in that situation i would refuse to allow him to go further until the check list is complete to my satisfaction.
If he tried to go further i would say out loud "Sir Check list is not complete" so if any thing does happen you can say i told you so. I tend to get cranky when its a saftey issue, i would not be that capitains favorite FO after that flight, and the company would hear how i felt he was unsafe.
12-08-2009 | 07:09 AM
#15
Banned
Joined: Sep 2007
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I love it when F/Os start griping. Hopefully when you guys upgrade you'll only fly with F/Os as obviously superior as you are.
Did it ever occur to you that Captains fall into these habits from flying with F/Os who are deficient in these areas?
Did it ever occur to you that Captains fall into these habits from flying with F/Os who are deficient in these areas?
12-08-2009 | 07:19 AM
#16
alchemist
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,089
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Everyday!!! Then they become deficient themselves by ignoring inputs from the person in the right seat! How soon you forget you were once an fo in somepoint in your career......
12-08-2009 | 07:48 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 238
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Ive always enjoyed "Let them know we'll be ready at the end", right after the taxi checklist. Since you say that everytime, after that checklist on every leg, this entire month, maybe I could anticipate that, and just say it, without your command.
12-08-2009 | 08:27 AM
#18
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Gets Weekends Off
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It goes beyond what I wrote originally, too, but I'm trying to keep what's on the public forum to just the minor annoyances and not things that shouldn't be published to the world, if you get my drift.
12-08-2009 | 09:09 AM
#19
New Hire
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6
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From: Airbus A320; First Officer
I pray to God that one day you're an F/O again--for a long time--and have to fly with captains that do these things, just so you can wish you NEVER typed what you just typed!
JKJ
12-08-2009 | 10:59 AM
#20
Day puke
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,865
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From: Out.
And I will gripe when the other pilot:
reads a checklist like an auctioneer,
responds before I challenge,
thinks I have the learning abilities of a goldfish,
knows his is the only real technique for the maneuver,
gets p!$$y when I try to keep him from violating a FAR, and
thinks he has learned it all.
If that offends, just read my signature...
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