A sad day for all that went to UND:(
04-09-2010, 11:01 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Livin' the dream
Posts: 626
Holy Heck, another chance on APCF to present to the interwebs just how politically correct I am.
I sometimes wonder about you people. Yes, you people. Pilots and Russian immigrants who are amazed at what we Americans put up with from the minority. Pilots, born and bred to operate in a stimulating, ever changing environment, but often at conflict with rigid codes of conduct on the outside. Russian immigrants who need to re-read whatever pamphlets were handed out prior to the test for U.S. Citizenship.
I forgive you though Ally. I mean, you're probably just descendant from pure peasant stock and don't really understand the whole freedom thing. Minority's. Pfft. Yes, it would be much easier to deal with them as your country (s?) have done in the past.
Everybody knows Russian peasants are simple-minded. Just like everybody knows Native Americans end up working in casinos on the rez.
Stupid minorities.
"Fighting Sioux", huh? Did UND ever ask the Sioux remaining in the state of North Dakota their thoughts on their mascot and slogan choice?
Did they ever pay tribute to the losses of life, on both sides, back in the 1800's and even into the 1900's that occurred to bring forth that nickname?
A proud people. Relegated to the "dustbin of history".
Now we make jokes about them running casinos and being alcoholics. Their home territories used to range from sun up to sun down. The first Americans.
A free people. A proud people.
Now they live in a place known to whites as cheap liquor and cigarette territory.
Ask the living Sioux what they think.
Keep fighting Sioux!
I sometimes wonder about you people. Yes, you people. Pilots and Russian immigrants who are amazed at what we Americans put up with from the minority. Pilots, born and bred to operate in a stimulating, ever changing environment, but often at conflict with rigid codes of conduct on the outside. Russian immigrants who need to re-read whatever pamphlets were handed out prior to the test for U.S. Citizenship.
I forgive you though Ally. I mean, you're probably just descendant from pure peasant stock and don't really understand the whole freedom thing. Minority's. Pfft. Yes, it would be much easier to deal with them as your country (s?) have done in the past.
Everybody knows Russian peasants are simple-minded. Just like everybody knows Native Americans end up working in casinos on the rez.
Stupid minorities.
"Fighting Sioux", huh? Did UND ever ask the Sioux remaining in the state of North Dakota their thoughts on their mascot and slogan choice?
Did they ever pay tribute to the losses of life, on both sides, back in the 1800's and even into the 1900's that occurred to bring forth that nickname?
A proud people. Relegated to the "dustbin of history".
Now we make jokes about them running casinos and being alcoholics. Their home territories used to range from sun up to sun down. The first Americans.
A free people. A proud people.
Now they live in a place known to whites as cheap liquor and cigarette territory.
Ask the living Sioux what they think.
Keep fighting Sioux!
Last edited by Kilgore Trout; 04-09-2010 at 11:19 PM.
04-09-2010, 11:16 PM
#13
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout
Holy Heck, another chance on APCF to present to the interwebs just how politically correct I am.
I sometimes wonder about you people. Yes, you people. Pilots and Russian immigrants who are amazed at what we Americans put up with from the minority. Pilots, born and bred to operate in a stimulating, ever changing environment, but often at conflict with rigid codes of conduct on the outside.
"Fighting Sioux", huh? Did UND ever ask the Sioux remaining in the state of North Dakota their thoughts on their mascot and slogan choice?
Did they ever pay tribute to the losses of life, on both sides, back in the 1800's and even into the 1900's that occurred to bring forth that nickname?
A proud people. Relegated to the "dustbin of history".
Now we make jokes about them running casinos and being alcoholics. Their home territories used to range from sun up to sun down. The first Americans.
A free people. A proud people.
Now they live in a place known to whites as cheap liquor and cigarette territory.
Ask the living Sioux what they think.
Keep fighting Sioux!
I sometimes wonder about you people. Yes, you people. Pilots and Russian immigrants who are amazed at what we Americans put up with from the minority. Pilots, born and bred to operate in a stimulating, ever changing environment, but often at conflict with rigid codes of conduct on the outside.
"Fighting Sioux", huh? Did UND ever ask the Sioux remaining in the state of North Dakota their thoughts on their mascot and slogan choice?
Did they ever pay tribute to the losses of life, on both sides, back in the 1800's and even into the 1900's that occurred to bring forth that nickname?
A proud people. Relegated to the "dustbin of history".
Now we make jokes about them running casinos and being alcoholics. Their home territories used to range from sun up to sun down. The first Americans.
A free people. A proud people.
Now they live in a place known to whites as cheap liquor and cigarette territory.
Ask the living Sioux what they think.
Keep fighting Sioux!
We can talk about the Dakota tribe too, if you like.
We should all be a free and proud people, but it didn't quite work out that way.
We have far more in common with Native Americans than most of us will ever realize.
04-09-2010, 11:36 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Livin' the dream
Posts: 626
Originally Posted by jungle
Keep fighting indeed. They fought long before we got here, killing off other tribes, for far longer than our short period of presence. Unfortunately they have ceased fighting and become far more interested in welfare.
We can talk about the Dakota tribe too, if you like.
We can talk about the Dakota tribe too, if you like.
See the following link re- fighting and UND mascot.
2007 Standing Rock Sioux Tribe Resolution opposing use of the UND "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo
04-09-2010, 11:43 PM
#15
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout
I don't think they ceased fighting.
See the following link re- fighting and UND mascot.
2007 Standing Rock Sioux Tribe Resolution opposing use of the UND "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo
See the following link re- fighting and UND mascot.
2007 Standing Rock Sioux Tribe Resolution opposing use of the UND "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo
How are we any different?
What has been taken and what has been given?
You don't get to be the butt of jokes by taking scalps or counting coup. That stopped a very long time ago.
We have all been put on the rez by the White Father. Or did you miss that part?
Last edited by jungle; 04-10-2010 at 12:01 AM.
04-10-2010, 12:02 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Livin' the dream
Posts: 626
It is a good day to die.
Sometimes Jungle, I know you are flying a tight circular pattern above my dug in position. Just waiting to call in fire. That's cool. You're on one side and apparently I'm on the other. On this issue anyway. Horse races and all that. I feel this may be one of those times. Right now it's Alaska time, but I await the coming of the East Coast strike force domicile fleet after it's had it's coffee.
I answer these questions by the following.
What has been taken from them, a long time ago, remains alive in their minds. No different than American families who fought as Confederates and Unionists. Not to be forgotten. The reminders are there every day for them, in family history, in spoken and written form handed down from their ancestors, in history books, and in small everyday reminders like looking over what ground used to be theirs and is now divided into towns, cities, counties, states, and a country.
I would say to have respect. For the fact that they are our fellow Americans, have more than earned their places in history as fierce warriors and statesmen, citizens, and are our Brothers and Sisters.
As you say above, we are more alike than different.
We walk the same places their ancestors walked.
Originally Posted by jungle
You may fight with symbolism or you may fight in a real struggle. We both know what this is...
How are we any different?
What has been taken and what has been given?
You don't get to be the butt of jokes by taking scalps or counting coup. That stopped a very long time ago.
How are we any different?
What has been taken and what has been given?
You don't get to be the butt of jokes by taking scalps or counting coup. That stopped a very long time ago.
What has been taken from them, a long time ago, remains alive in their minds. No different than American families who fought as Confederates and Unionists. Not to be forgotten. The reminders are there every day for them, in family history, in spoken and written form handed down from their ancestors, in history books, and in small everyday reminders like looking over what ground used to be theirs and is now divided into towns, cities, counties, states, and a country.
I would say to have respect. For the fact that they are our fellow Americans, have more than earned their places in history as fierce warriors and statesmen, citizens, and are our Brothers and Sisters.
As you say above, we are more alike than different.
We walk the same places their ancestors walked.
04-10-2010, 12:05 AM
#17
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout
Sometimes Jungle, I know you are flying a tight circular pattern above my dug in position. Just waiting to call in fire. That's cool. You're on one side and apparently I'm on the other. On this issue anyway. Horse races and all that. I feel this may be one of those times. Right now it's Alaska time, but I await the coming of the East Coast strike force domicile fleet after it's had it's coffee.
I answer these questions by the following.
What has been taken from them, a long time ago, remains alive in their minds. No different than American families who fought as Confederates and Unionists. Not to be forgotten. The reminders are there every day for them, in family history, in spoken and written form handed down from their ancestors, in history books, and in small everyday reminders like looking over what ground used to be theirs and is now divided into towns, cities, counties, states, and a country.
I would say to have respect. For the fact that they are our fellow Americans, have more than earned their places in history as fierce warriors and statesmen, citizens, and are our Brothers and Sisters.
As you say above, we are more alike than different.
We walk the same places their ancestors walked.
I answer these questions by the following.
What has been taken from them, a long time ago, remains alive in their minds. No different than American families who fought as Confederates and Unionists. Not to be forgotten. The reminders are there every day for them, in family history, in spoken and written form handed down from their ancestors, in history books, and in small everyday reminders like looking over what ground used to be theirs and is now divided into towns, cities, counties, states, and a country.
I would say to have respect. For the fact that they are our fellow Americans, have more than earned their places in history as fierce warriors and statesmen, citizens, and are our Brothers and Sisters.
As you say above, we are more alike than different.
We walk the same places their ancestors walked.
When you start to treat different groups with a different set of laws you have started to slide down a very steep and slippery slope.
We are on that slope right now. Are we all Americans or are we not? If we are, let us start to be treated as equals.
Last edited by jungle; 04-10-2010 at 12:16 AM.
04-10-2010, 07:17 AM
#20
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Going Mach Chicken
Posts: 324
With respect Kilgore, you are someone trying to look in on a situation that has been going on for many years, and you don't know anything about it. I have been living in Grand Forks for the last 6 years and have a much more intimate view of the situation. To answer some of your questions:
To make it a little more clear as to what happened:
This year was UND's first year with all sports programs competing in NCAA Division I (our hockey teams has been doing it for many years already). Although this is our "red shirt" year, if you will, we have competed rather well and the transition to D-I has been fluid. However, UND is currently in the Great West conference which (please correct me if I'm wrong) only has 6 teams in it, none of which are really "rivals". So UND has been petitioning to join the Summit league which contains our home state rival NDSU and other close rival SDSU, among other teams that would make it a much better fit. Summit League commissioner Tom Douple had put our application on hold until the nickname issue was resolved. So this brings us to the NDBHE. In a completely political move, the board voted to retire the UND logo and name. This was without support from the UND community or either of the Sioux tribes. In hypocritical fashion, they did exactly opposite of what they required UND to do, and circumvented the tribes. This is where me, and I think mostly everyone else up here is frustrated.
I hope this brings to light a little of what has been going on. I'm sorry if I come off harsh, but I am, and always will be a Fighting Sioux and I'm proud of those who died so that my school could honor them this way.
Sioux Yeah Yeah!!
Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout
"Fighting Sioux", huh? Did UND ever ask the Sioux remaining in the state of North Dakota their thoughts on their mascot and slogan choice?
Yes we have. There are two tribes in ND. The Spirit Lake tribe and the Standing Rock Tribe. We have had full support of the Spirit Lake tribe for several years. The Standing Rock tribal leaders had been much more reluctant to support the name, even though the vast majority of the Stand Rock members did support it. This past year, the reluctant leaders were voted out by the members of the tribe and new ones, more in tune with what the views of their people, were getting ready to vote on the nickname soon (and most likely in favor of the name). The article you posted above from 2007 was quite a while ago and, as you can see, a lot has changed since then.
Did they ever pay tribute to the losses of life, on both sides, back in the 1800's and even into the 1900's that occurred to bring forth that nickname?
Yes we do. Before every sporting event, a video is broadcast honoring the Sioux nation for their "honor, bravery, and winning battles". The video is always follow by cheers of support from the patrons. Additionally, every year there is a large pow-wow on the university campus where the entire community shows up to watch tribal members perform dances, honoring their heritage and culture. The community has always showed tremendous support. These are just two examples, there are at least a half dozen more (on top of free tuition as well). BTW, did you know that the logo (now my avatar) was design by a Sioux Indian?
A proud people. Relegated to the "dustbin of history".
Now we make jokes about them running casinos and being alcoholics. Their home territories used to range from sun up to sun down. The first Americans.
No one up here, at least that I've talked to or heard, has blamed the Sioux for this. This was not them (as I explained above), this was a decision made by the ND State Board of Higher Education because of political reasons (I will explain more below).
A free people. A proud people.
I wholeheartedly agree!
Now they live in a place known to whites as cheap liquor and cigarette territory.
Ask the living Sioux what they think.
We have, I hope you listened.
Keep fighting Sioux!
Yes we have. There are two tribes in ND. The Spirit Lake tribe and the Standing Rock Tribe. We have had full support of the Spirit Lake tribe for several years. The Standing Rock tribal leaders had been much more reluctant to support the name, even though the vast majority of the Stand Rock members did support it. This past year, the reluctant leaders were voted out by the members of the tribe and new ones, more in tune with what the views of their people, were getting ready to vote on the nickname soon (and most likely in favor of the name). The article you posted above from 2007 was quite a while ago and, as you can see, a lot has changed since then.
Did they ever pay tribute to the losses of life, on both sides, back in the 1800's and even into the 1900's that occurred to bring forth that nickname?
Yes we do. Before every sporting event, a video is broadcast honoring the Sioux nation for their "honor, bravery, and winning battles". The video is always follow by cheers of support from the patrons. Additionally, every year there is a large pow-wow on the university campus where the entire community shows up to watch tribal members perform dances, honoring their heritage and culture. The community has always showed tremendous support. These are just two examples, there are at least a half dozen more (on top of free tuition as well). BTW, did you know that the logo (now my avatar) was design by a Sioux Indian?
A proud people. Relegated to the "dustbin of history".
Now we make jokes about them running casinos and being alcoholics. Their home territories used to range from sun up to sun down. The first Americans.
No one up here, at least that I've talked to or heard, has blamed the Sioux for this. This was not them (as I explained above), this was a decision made by the ND State Board of Higher Education because of political reasons (I will explain more below).
A free people. A proud people.
I wholeheartedly agree!
Now they live in a place known to whites as cheap liquor and cigarette territory.
Ask the living Sioux what they think.
We have, I hope you listened.
Keep fighting Sioux!
This year was UND's first year with all sports programs competing in NCAA Division I (our hockey teams has been doing it for many years already). Although this is our "red shirt" year, if you will, we have competed rather well and the transition to D-I has been fluid. However, UND is currently in the Great West conference which (please correct me if I'm wrong) only has 6 teams in it, none of which are really "rivals". So UND has been petitioning to join the Summit league which contains our home state rival NDSU and other close rival SDSU, among other teams that would make it a much better fit. Summit League commissioner Tom Douple had put our application on hold until the nickname issue was resolved. So this brings us to the NDBHE. In a completely political move, the board voted to retire the UND logo and name. This was without support from the UND community or either of the Sioux tribes. In hypocritical fashion, they did exactly opposite of what they required UND to do, and circumvented the tribes. This is where me, and I think mostly everyone else up here is frustrated.
I hope this brings to light a little of what has been going on. I'm sorry if I come off harsh, but I am, and always will be a Fighting Sioux and I'm proud of those who died so that my school could honor them this way.
Sioux Yeah Yeah!!
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