vagabond

I thought I would pose this question here since there seems to be a plethora of real, imagined and wannabe alpha males on APC.

My friend and I were discussing this alpha male phenomenon. He believes that an alpha male is born that way, and others are born beta males. He does not believe that a beta male can somehow transform himself into an alpha male. A beta might act like an alpha, but deep down inside, will always remain a beta.

Since he is an old Hornet guy, he believes that (1) he himself is an alpha male, (2) only alpha males fly fighters.

I think he's wrong, but then arguing with a big headed old fighter guy is like arguing with a 16 oz cup of extra hot Mocha.

Mom Note: would those replying care to identify themselves as alpha or beta?

Dubes

If by "alpha male" you mean a leader, then no I do not believe one is born with that attribute. Leadership is a skill just like any other teamwork related job. I've never seen anyone born with that ability; it was never a natural trait.

In my opinion becoming a leader takes effort and practice just like playing the piano. Some people are definitely better at it than others though. Those are my two cents..

angry tanker

Vagabond - You haven't figured it out yet???? Only fighter guys are 100% Beta males. they only do what their masters' want...Come on, go fly and fight...that's it. it is like sending the jackals out to go kill and prep the meat. come on, you ad to know the truth by now????

FlyJSH

Nature vs. Nurture? Hasn't that been done to death?

Fishfreighter

Unfortunately, a LOT of fighter guys are overcompensating betas. Real alphas don't need to define themselves by "accomplishments."

You have to remember that assigment to training pipelines (in the US Navy, at least) is a function of:

1. Flight grades
2. Graduation date

There are some people who arrive at military flight school with prior flying experiene, some with zero flight time. Those with experience tend to do better in the early fam stage which inflates their grades. If you have a certain overall grade level, that's known as "jet grades".

If there are seats available in the jet pipeline the week you graduate, you go to jets. If not, you go to props or helos. If there are more jet seats than primary grads, EVERYONE goes to jets regardless of grades. That's known as the "jet draft."

Personally, I knew several "betas" who flew jets in the Navy. On the other hand, I knew one distinct "alpha" who only wanted helos. In fact, later in his career, he turned down an A-6 seat that was offered out of the blue because he loved helo flying so much. He became instrumental in establishing the Navy's H-60 Combat SAR operations.

So, the correlation between fighters and alphas is all in the mind of fighter pilots. They want to think they're all alphas, but I submit more of them are betas then they'd care to admit.

rickair7777

I suspect you are born with it, or at least the innate desire to be an alpha, but nurture plays a huge role also.

Your circumstances while young may not allow you to express that desire initially (wore glasses, didn't grow big fast enough for the football team, etc) but a true alpha will probably spread his wings and fly after high school at the latest.

There are also I think athlete-alphas and leadership-alphas...

The athlete type might express himself by doing active hobbies and holding an active job (cop, fireman, military, etc). These guys are not necessarily dumb jocks, they are just comfortable with their preferred niche and don't need to go on to greater things to prove anything to themselves.

The leadership-type alpha might express himself by succeeding in business, law, politics, etc.

Of course as was mentioned, you also get the compensators....what's the difference? I think the compensator is playing a role which he is really not naturally comfortable with or even desires, but he views it as important that others perceive him a certain way. The downside is that a compensator trying to be a professional leader might be unsuited to that, which sucks for the subordinates.

I also subscribe to the standard US military doctrine that leadership can be learned and applied deliberately, maybe not by everyone but probably by most professionals. But if you do not have natural leadership skills, OJT is not going to work, you need to make some deliberate study and application of the literature on that subject. The military has good success with this because their officers are initially selected for certain attributes which at least lend themselves to leadership development.

Dan64456

Did people like George W. Bush work hard to become a leader, or was it nepositm like the rest of the 'elite' world? lol

Airhoss

I am an Alpha,

I require all other males in my presence to role over and crawl on their backs and grovel at my feet before eating. I am always first to dine at the kill no matter who made it and all females are required to breed with me and me only.

If I see females who have children who are not mine I kill the cubs and force the females to breed with me so that only my cubs carrying my superior genes survive.

If another male shows signs of alpha in my presence I immediately fight him and either kill him or force him out of the pack to try and survive on his own.

Is that bad?

PS

Vagabond I currently have a position open in my territory for a fit fast running huntress. Let me know by marking the territorial tree if you'd like to join the pack!!

jungle

Dan, one of the many reasons we don't allow a lot of political chatter here is that myopic adolescents often attribute the acts of a single man to be the embodiment of a nation, ignoring the acts of the other 534 major players in what we consider the body politic.

Were it not for the great mass of the public who pant and pine for "leadership" in almost every aspect of their lives, much of this pain might be entirely avoided.

An unfortunate result of this reasoning is the mistaken belief that bureaucrats represent leadership, or that a single Tiger may change the ways of a herd of deer.

Dan64456

It wasn't intended to be political; it was just an example of what goes on at the top of pretty much every corporate organization or government... Nowhere in the message did I say anything bad about him or his actions, or even political viewpoints. I understand that everyone is in everyone else’s (those who are in a position to make decisions) collective pockets better than most. The TOS card can go back in the pocket now. =)