N9373M

A buddy and I want to get some photos of each others a/c in flight. He's got a Piper Cherokee 150 and I'm in a Mooney. I'd like to come up with a safety plan.

We'll do the shoot over a lake and under the tier of a Class C airspace.

Should we go out as a flight of two, in a very loose formation? or meet over the lake? We'll be departing from the same Class C airport.

The lake is large enough such that we could designate your side/my side and we could designate "lost contact" altitudes (me higher, him lower), and of course we'd agree upon a common freq (123.45?).

After the shoot it's off to another airport for the Mooney annual, then she's for sale

Thanks!

rickair7777

I would probably get some training in form flying before you attempt that.

If you want to just wing it (which I don't recommend), I would have a dedicated pilot in each aircraft, a photog/safety observer in the photo platform, and a safety observer (pilot rated) in the target aircraft. If you can take a dedicated safety observer in the photo bird, do that too. Then maintain altitude separation at all times, have hi/lo assignments and each bird goes hi or lo respectively on "knock it off".

The target will maintain course/speed and the photo bird will maneuver to avoid collisions and get the desired photo angles. You can swap hi/lo as needed for photography, but do it in a controlled, coordinated manner and then resume photography once it's done.

Also, you can be doing such a great job of looking out for each other that you forget about non-participant traffic. I would get flight-following to enhance your SA and the SA of any intruders who are with ATC.

Cubdriver

I have done coordinated skydive ops with other aircraft more or less in formation and it can get crazy real quick if you are not planned pretty well. We see aerial photo ops here in Wichita a lot and there are articles on it in AOPA magazine. I get paid skydive customers wanting a demo jump while juggling ATC, maintaining see and avoid, keeping the timing with a minute or two, etc. It's more than it seems and I am tired after demo flights. Aerial photo ops are less critical in some ways, but you need as a minimum all the stuff Rick mentioned plus a second radio for private comms. Issues seem to arise when changes are attempted, so you want to plan it out as much as possible before flying. I think I would map out the circuit and visualize all the things you need to do on the flight. Photographers act like they are the boss, but you have to retain positive control. I used to do aerial photo ops with the pilot head-down in a custom nav display, and the safety pilot had the authority to stop the shoot and take control if the need arose. You need to clarify these rules ahead of time. You could have circuits set up to give the photographer a chance to see the same angle again.

N9373M

Thanks Rick and Cub,

We're not going until the 20th, so there is time to plan or cancel. He's a newly minted PPL, so maybe this is not a good idea at this point.

I've done (well seen, really) formation flight with SkyWarriors (T34 BFM) in 1992 out of ATL's Charlie Brown field, and was duly frightened.

Cubdriver

If you just want some air to air snapshots, plan a short VFR flight with the sun 60-120 deg. to the course heading and get them in the cruise. You won't get professional quality, but it might work for what you need and it would be a safer than photo work in class C.

UAL T38 Phlyer

N9373M:

DO NOT fly formation unless someone in each airplane is an experienced formation pilot.

I spend a significant portion of my time instructing Air Force student pilots how to fly formation. When they get to me, they have formation experience in the T-6A, and 20 hours or so in the T-38.

They scare me and themselves on a regular basis.

This is in airplanes with canopies....and one of the significant difficulties, for newbies, is recognizing and controlling closure, and controlling it/maintaining sight. "Keeping sight" and "Controlling closure" are often mutually contradictory.

I tried some formation flying (once) before I was in the Air Force, and had maybe 140 hours. I scared myself bad during the rejoin (the other guy, too). I was intrigued and wanted to try it again, but knew I couldn't until I was taught.

If you really want to get these shots, find some former military guys with significant formation time who are current in light airplanes to go along with you.

Another idea: do "turns about a point" near the lake, and have a friend with a HUGE camera take pictures from the center-point on the ground!

N9373M

Very interesting day. Got to the airport about two hours early and watched an Army deployment on Allegient. Lots of family, American flags, and tearful goodbyes.

Lead took off first, and I followed a few minutes later. It took us awhile to find each other, I spotted him at my 12, and asked him for a slow right turn, cut the angle and joined up. A couple of circuits around the lake, him maintaining alt and heading, me adjusting for mutual photos. Not professional shots at all, but we're happy. I'll post them in a few days.

After RTB, a pair of AV8's came roaring over in the pattern, but never stopped.

I really do appreciate the advice from all who replied.