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2 Planes Land While ATC Naps @ DCA

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Old 03-24-2011 | 12:55 PM
  #31  
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Default Different section of the regs

Originally Posted by hoover
wouldn't it be uncontrolled when the tower was out of operation according to the AFD ( certain times at night) but if the AFD said that the tower was supposed to be open and no one was answering then it is still controlled and you need a clearence?
No, in that case it would be "badly controlled" or "out of control".
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Old 03-24-2011 | 01:19 PM
  #32  
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A while back SLC tower and TRACON lost power. Clover control from Hill AFB. was directing traffic into SLC until they got it sorted out. I think it was during a fairly busy traffic time.
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Old 03-24-2011 | 01:26 PM
  #33  
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FAA facilities have gone "ATC Zero" many times over the years. Nothing new.
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Old 03-24-2011 | 01:37 PM
  #34  
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If there were men and equipment working on the runway, then the runway would have been CLOSED and a big shiny lighted X displayed. At a controlled airport, for men/equipment to have access to an open runway they have to get clearance to cross the hold short line, which they wouldn't have been able to obtain. Let's not bash the crew for their decisions in an obviously odd set of circumstances.
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Old 03-24-2011 | 01:44 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by gettinbumped
If there were men and equipment working on the runway, then the runway would have been CLOSED and a big shiny lighted X displayed. At a controlled airport, for men/equipment to have access to an open runway they have to get clearance to cross the hold short line, which they wouldn't have been able to obtain. Let's not bash the crew for their decisions in an obviously odd set of circumstances.

If there wasn't a terrorist involved (in the nation's capital). Or if there wasn't some other mistake.

That's the checks and balances in the system. The circumstances aren't even that odd. The radios could have FAILED !!! Imagine that? It's happened numerous times at ATC facilities (including all the backups).

What if the tower guy had just cleared that proverbial maintenance crew on to the runway for some late night repairs (as is typical; that's the slow time) and then the radios failed.

Gosh, landing wouldn't be such a good idea then, would it?

Edit: I'll reply to your comment that the runway would be closed for repair. No, not necessarily. That also means no big lighted X. Even just the airport operations vehicle could be doing a runway sweep for FOD. There are lots of scenarios that put men and equipment on the runway that won't NOTAM the runway closed, nor be marked closed.

Last edited by TonyWilliams; 03-24-2011 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 03-24-2011 | 02:08 PM
  #36  
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Then it's light gun signal time.

Which is kind of the red flag, no comm and no light guns.

Last edited by forgot to bid; 03-24-2011 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 03-24-2011 | 02:19 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Then it's light gun signal time.
What was the "ground guy" doing and was it the same guy? Probably so, so nobody was getting out. Still, in 29 years of flying, I've never experienced this. I probably would have diverted to a field with an operational tower, BWI, IAD, specially as it was Reagan National.
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Old 03-24-2011 | 02:28 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Then it's light gun signal time.
So these guys got a light gun signal... from the sleeping supervisor?

No.

Which still makes my scenarios viable.

Last edited by TonyWilliams; 03-24-2011 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 03-24-2011 | 02:35 PM
  #39  
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I think were actually saying the same thing... after I clarified.
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Old 03-24-2011 | 02:37 PM
  #40  
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Judging from most of the posts in this thread, it must be monday morning.

Really? Terrorists parking a car on a runway?
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