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cardiomd 05-15-2015 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 1881114)
Nobody can ban service animals. Airlines could ban emotional support pets who are not properly certified as actual service animals...but they just kind of wink at the pax, collect their fares, and let the crews deal with it.

Not quite true but almost true. There are very much "commonsense" rules and exceptions. For example, service dogs are allowed in the hospital, but not on our OR floors, chemo rooms where immunosuppressed patients may be, etc. They can't be where food is being prepared.

I'm sure that the airlines could get more legal leeway but the "black eye" they would get from the histrionic lawsuits that would follow is not worth it. I'm frankly surprised they allow non-service animals in the cabin. :rolleyes:

LNL76 05-15-2015 03:06 PM


Originally Posted by cardiomd (Post 1881591)
Not quite true but almost true. There are very much "commonsense" rules and exceptions. For example, service dogs are allowed in the hospital, but not on our OR floors, chemo rooms where immunosuppressed patients may be, etc. They can't be where food is being prepared.

I'm sure that the airlines could get more legal leeway but the "black eye" they would get from the histrionic lawsuits that would follow is not worth it. I'm frankly surprised they allow non-service animals in the cabin. :rolleyes:

You're not permitted to ask what one's disability is, soooo, the loophole is huge in the ADA. If someone claims they need a "support animal" to fly, they get away with it.

cardiomd 05-15-2015 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by LNL76 (Post 1881622)
You're not permitted to ask what one's disability is, soooo, the loophole is huge in the ADA. If someone claims they need a "support animal" to fly, they get away with it.

No such thing in the ADA. Likely your employer asks you not to ask paying passengers what is wrong with them, and frankly, given the disdain posters display of passengers that potentially "get away with it" I can understand why they would issue guidance against flight attendants from inquiring.

Imagine the passenger experience of being asked by the GA then FA then purser "what's wrong with them?" in a suspicious fashion.

That being said just eliminate the whole spectacle of special handling IMO. If you can't walk the length of a plane in a reasonable time, you probably shouldn't fly.

rickair7777 05-15-2015 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by cardiomd (Post 1881591)
Not quite true but almost true. There are very much "commonsense" rules and exceptions. For example, service dogs are allowed in the hospital, but not on our OR floors, chemo rooms where immunosuppressed patients may be, etc. They can't be where food is being prepared.

I'm sure that the airlines could get more legal leeway but the "black eye" they would get from the histrionic lawsuits that would follow is not worth it. I'm frankly surprised they allow non-service animals in the cabin. :rolleyes:

I meant nobody can ban them from places where the general public has access. They're not allowed in the cockpit or the control room of a nuclear missile submarine either.

Airlines don't want bad publicity, and even more importantly they want to sell tickets...even at the risk of annoying their employees other customers. They will turn a blind eye until something really bad happens.

rickair7777 05-15-2015 07:19 PM


Originally Posted by LNL76 (Post 1881622)
You're not permitted to ask what one's disability is, soooo, the loophole is huge in the ADA. If someone claims they need a "support animal" to fly, they get away with it.

Actually an employer or merchant could ask for details to

1) Ensure they properly accommodate the peron's needs and

2) To verify that accommodation is legitimately required. Although it seems like it, we're not required to provide accommodations to anyone and everyone just because they ask for it. It's legally reasonable to require verification..even though the media would say otherwise :rolleyes:

eman 05-15-2015 07:43 PM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 1881114)
There's a difference between a true service animal and "emotional support" pets.

Emotional support pets can be anything and are generally allowed in places other animals may not be such as restaurants. Service animals are highly trained and individually certified to behave in a safe manner in pretty much all situations.

Nobody can ban service animals. Airlines could ban emotional support pets who are not properly certified as actual service animals...but they just kind of wink at the pax, collect their fares, and let the crews deal with it.


Yup I meant to write emotional support pet..thanks


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Hetman 05-15-2015 11:34 PM

How to Take Your Pet Everywhere - The New Yorker

Amusing (in a crying on the inside sort of way) and informative article about emotional support animals. You should see what the author does with her emotional support reptiles and livestock.

Exerpt:

... In contrast to an emotional-support animal (E.S.A.), a service dog is trained to perform specific tasks, such as pulling a wheelchair and responding to seizures. The I.R.S. classifies these dogs as a deductible medical expense, whereas an emotional-support animal is more like a blankie. An E.S.A. is defined by the government as an untrained companion of any species that provides solace to someone with a disability, such as anxiety or depression. The rights of anyone who has such an animal are laid out in two laws. The Fair Housing Act says that you and your E.S.A. can live in housing that prohibits pets. The Air Carrier Access Act entitles you to fly with your E.S.A. at no extra charge, although airlines typically require the animal to stay on your lap or under the seat—this rules out emotional-support rhinoceroses. Both acts stipulate that you must have a corroborating letter from a health professional....

cardiomd 05-16-2015 04:05 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 1881812)
Actually an employer or merchant could ask for details to

1) Ensure they properly accommodate the peron's needs and

2) To verify that accommodation is legitimately required. Although it seems like it, we're not required to provide accommodations to anyone and everyone just because they ask for it. It's legally reasonable to require verification..even though the media would say otherwise :rolleyes:

Again #2 is reasonable though to some degree. Imagine you got shrapnel injury in war and just have to walk slowly, and then LNL and company asks you to "prove" it every time you fly. Gets old pretty quickly. I'd rather have a few freeloaders than a checkpoint/gestapo, which is why I feel just elminating the whole "advantage" for mildly handicapped would solve the problem.

Somebody who is nonambulatory is generally obvious and could make rare case-by-case accommodations.

Lady caridomd does litigation occasionally in this and related areas. I see you looked up the ADA wording - the "general public" has been focused on "can't blanketly ban" areas / businesses etc without reason. There are still "general public accessible" areas that dogs are not allowed, health, safety, even cases of religious areas etc., and while the original wording included general public area it has not held up or historically been enforced as strictly such.

ADA was a great law to prevent blanket discrimination, but people misinterpret it all the time (e.g. some people think you 'can't ask if somebody could do the job'). Of course an employer can ask about specifics - somebody who can't walk can't do a job that requires stairs etc. A custmoer who can't move his arms shouldn't go white water rafting. However every front line employee asking questions about a handicap may be perceived as harassment for better or worse, which is why LNL and other employees are told to not ask.

cardiomd 05-16-2015 04:09 AM


Originally Posted by Hetman (Post 1881874)
How to Take Your Pet Everywhere - The New Yorker

Amusing (in a crying on the inside sort of way) and informative article about emotional support animals. You should see what the author does with her emotional support reptiles and livestock.

Exerpt:

Wow, those stories are simply horrible. I am unaware of any legal status of "emotional support" animals, will have to ask the better half after get back from FLYING. :cool:

mike734 05-16-2015 10:20 AM

I like Adam Carolla's idea. He wants to bring along his emotional support pelican, Gilligan. Suffice to say, this emotional support BS is getting out of hand.


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