Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Hangar Talk (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/)
-   -   Tool of the day (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/66729-tool-day.html)

rickair7777 09-18-2017 02:49 PM


Originally Posted by Turbosina (Post 2431900)
Gonna nominate myself for the absolutely terrible ILS I flew today.

We were close behind a Super in our little RJ, in IMC, so I clicked off the AP so I could stay a dot high on GS, then clicked off the FD because its 'fly down' commands were getting distracting. Ended up off centerline and high. I made it work, and we were never outside our SOP tolerances, and we landed in the TDZ, but it was one of those days where you just feel like you've forgotten how to fly. Oh well. Hopefully tomorrow will be better...

They should provide wake separation in IMC. In my experience visuals are where you need to fly high.

Packrat 09-18-2017 03:19 PM


Originally Posted by contrails (Post 2432151)
I even had to go around last year in a 717 following an A330. At 200' we hit wake that quickly pushed us to the side and got us in an uncorrectable spot. Nothing could be done but go-around.

Right, at 200' where the vortices didn't have the vertical distance to descend. That's where you're going to have your problem, not on 10 mile final.

And it doesn't take a heavy to roll your airliner up. I got rolled in a DC-9 by the wake of an H-53. Your 737 could easily roll an RJ.

Turbosina 09-18-2017 11:02 PM


Originally Posted by Packrat (Post 2431991)
You need to check out the FAA video on how wingtip vortices work. Unless you had a tailwind, there's no need for you to ever fly an ILS "a dot high". Doing that only puts your vortices in the next guy's glide path.

You're right, theoretically if all aircraft are on the electronic G/S, and there's proper spacing, the vortices will sink out of the following aircraft's way. Theoretically only a significant tailwind should create cause for concern.

That's theory. Then there's the reality of one's own experience, which I suppose affects how we all fly. A few years back I had a rather unforgettable first-hand experience in which I was rolled fully inverted at 1000' AGL on final behind an A300. Fortunately I'd had upset training, so I'm here to talk about it. Unloaded the wing with a very firm push and kept 'er rolling all the way around -- the roll was too abrupt to follow the natural instinct, which is of course to stop the roll and reverse it.

The spacing on final was fine, but it happened anyways. And I've hit enough vortices at 100' AGL while following a heavy that I'm acutely aware of the danger they present. Haven't we all?

So, yeah, maybe I'm a bit paranoid. But this morning, I could actually see the darn vortices coming off the preceding traffic, as they created rather beautiful patterns in the cloud tops. I'm guessing the preceding aircraft was right on G/S, but all I knew was, I wasn't going to fly through those swirling mists. Once in IMC, I couldn't very well avoid the vortices visually anymore.

Anyhow, what I shouldhave done was kept the A/P engaged and used V/S mode to control the descent rate (instead of coupling to the G/S for descent.). That would have kept us slightly above the G/S while taking care of the lateral track automatically.

You are, of course, absolutely correct that if we all flew the G/S a dot high, we'd create wake issues for other aircraft behind us. That's a very good point.

Turbosina 09-18-2017 11:06 PM


Originally Posted by Riverside (Post 2431988)
When you say you weren't outside sop. That means you probably were.

Well I don't have the FDR to prove it to myself, but the speed was always in the bug below 1000' AGL (although the trend vector got way too large for my taste at times), and we were never more than a dot off laterally or vertically. But it was just one of those approaches where I was working way too hard for no reason. It just felt like lousy airmanship. Don't you ever have days like that?

Dolphinflyer 09-19-2017 06:10 AM


Originally Posted by Packrat (Post 2432104)
Tailwinds, sure. But a Super is probably flying a coupled approach.

"Probably"?

You just shot down your entire argument. A better statement for yourself would have been, "I would assume the Super is flying a coupled approach"

Riverside 09-19-2017 07:03 AM


Originally Posted by Turbosina (Post 2432371)
Well I don't have the FDR to prove it to myself, but the speed was always in the bug below 1000' AGL (although the trend vector got way too large for my taste at times), and we were never more than a dot off laterally or vertically. But it was just one of those approaches where I was working way too hard for no reason. It just felt like lousy airmanship. Don't you ever have days like that?


No, I only fly tier 1 approaches 🙄

ShyGuy 09-19-2017 08:00 AM


Originally Posted by Turbosina (Post 2432370)
That's theory. Then there's the reality of one's own experience, which I suppose affects how we all fly. A few years back I had a rather unforgettable first-hand experience in which I was rolled fully inverted at 1000' AGL on final behind an A300. Fortunately I'd had upset training, so I'm here to talk about it. Unloaded the wing with a very firm push and kept 'er rolling all the way around -- the roll was too abrupt to follow the natural instinct, which is of course to stop the roll and reverse it.

A transport category aircraft you were flying rolled fully inverted behind an A300 at 1,000 AGL?

BigDukeSix 09-19-2017 09:06 AM

^^^^^I call bullsh!t on this too. And upset recovery is to roll in the shortest direction to wings level!

AC560 09-19-2017 09:53 AM


Originally Posted by BigDukeSix (Post 2432534)
^^^^^I call bullsh!t on this too. And upset recovery is to roll in the shortest direction to wings level!

If you are 1/8 through an 8 point roll just bring it around and don't be scared. You sound like a weak pilot.

sACKtis 09-19-2017 10:09 AM


Originally Posted by Turbosina (Post 2432370)
A few years back I had a rather unforgettable first-hand experience in which I was rolled fully inverted at 1000' AGL on final behind an A300.

Things you did at Delta Virtual Airlines dont count. You realize that wasn't real life right?


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:20 AM.


Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands