And what you would say is still wrong.

In your haste to post data to support your view, you failed to comprehend what Mr. Voss actually said. It's there in the title, the first three words:

Pilots back up ...

You failed to understand what it means to back up the automation, even when Mr. Voss offered a poignant example of pilots' failure to do just that. "Back up" does not mean "watch." "Back up" means knowing enough about flying airplanes to recognize when the automation isn't doing what you want it to do, and having the skills to actually fly the airplane with your own two hands when the automation isn't working.

The Air France 447 pilots failed on both scores. They failed to recognize it wasn't doing what it was supposed to do, and they failed miserably at using their 2 hands to fly the airplane.

The failure in training has been to place so much emphasis on the skills required to use the automation that the skills required to fly airplanes, like pilots do, has suffered. Mr. Voss is correct -- we need to change our emphasis on training so that we are able to back up the automation -- that means Fly the Airplane FIRST, LAST, and ALWAYS.

Do you disagree with my analysis? Read this sentence from Mr. Voss and explain how it fits your model of "pilots just manage the computer."That pitch/power stuff right there is what they call pilot sh... stuff.


Do yourself a favor and watch the video Hacker15e posted. It will be the best 25:32 you've spent all month. Here's a YouTube version of the same thing:

"Children of Magenta"

The real title of the presentation is "Automation Dependency", but he introduced a term which has stuck -- Children of the Magenta. It's actually an edited version of a portion of a course presented at the American Airlines Flight Academy in 1997. It is just as valid today, if not more so.

Here are a few highlights:

(Speaking of recent accident history analysis) "Automation dependent pilots allowed their airplanes to get much closer to the edge of the envelope than they should have."

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"Which is the appropriate level [of automation] for the task at hand? ... You could say all this automation was put in our 2-man airplanes to reduce the workload on the 2-man crew, that's why it's in there. And you could say that to go up a level of automation will reduce workload, and that would be true in many scenarios. ... You can also say, however, that going down a level in automation will reduce workload in certain scenarios."

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"We have become what I call 'Children of the Magenta'."

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"We've determined that we have to change the culture that drives us to attempt to operate at the highest levels [of automation] at all times. We created this culture, I mean the whole industry has created this culture, and it needs to be changed."


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"The 'pilot flying' should remain as one with the aircraft in any low altitude maneuvering with the autopilot engaged. ... 'Be the ball'"

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"When we're down there in the pattern, we're maneuvering, we're changing configurations, we've got power settings going back and forth, the pilot flying, even though the autopilot is on, has got to remain tactilely connected to this plane, and mentally flying it, so that he will quickly recognize any deviation from acceptable performance parameters for intended flight path."

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Pay particularly close attention to the Bucharest Autothrottle accident cited. (Tarom Flt 371)

"If the copilot had just had his hand on the throttles ... 128 people would still be alive today."

[I believe the correct number of fatalities is 60.]

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"The autopilot and autothrottles have limitations that affect perfromance."

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"Autopilot and autothrottles, however good, cannot recover the aircraft from a critical flight attitude."

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"A pilot with the controls and the throttles in his hand will do what it takes not to hit a plane he can see, I promise."

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"An autopilot does not understand the command, 'NOW'."

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"Fly the plane first! Fly the plane first!"

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"About 15 years ago we started to become more and more automated in our cockpits, and as the level of automation increased, more and more we started talking about pushing buttons up here ... and we're typing on the typewriters down here to make the airplane flight path adjust, because we were being told by the industry that we were to become 'Automation Managers.' But the accident history of the first six years of the nineties clearly shows Automation Managers plugging themselves into the ground all over this planet.

"We are not Automation Managers. We are Captains and pilots. And by our aviator skills we are to ensure the vertical and lateral paths of these planes at all times. We will use the wonderful tools of automation that have been provided to us to help us with that task. But when the automation is not maintaining the intended flight path, we will turn it off and MAINTAIN THE PATH by our skills."

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"Automation lacks the ability to create flexible responses to unanticipated changes to flight path requirements."

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And THAT'S the truth.




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Amen brother!

 

For starters these are not my statements they belong to the CEO of Flight Safety. Presumably a world leader in aviation trends.

If I recall the problems with the Air France crash started after the AP was turned off. We keep having this discussion however as time goes by automation is making aviation safer. Most accidents today happen once the magic is turned off or is misused (another example Buffalo Dash8-400).

At some point the powers that be will have to decide if we are either hands on stick and rudder pilots or autopilot babysitters. I am sure that we are only one or two more "hands on" crashes away from a mandate to take a back seat to the computer and save hand flying for emergencies and the simulator.

The move towards complete automation is inevitable. New pilots today are being trained in glass from day one. Even the skycatcher has an AP option. Eventually true old fashioned attitude instrument flying stick and rudder skills will be gone. New pilots are going straight into a moving map automation world without even an opportunity to build base hand flying skills. Very soon the industry will be forced to hand over the plane to the computer.

Skyhigh

 

Reading comprehension, SkyHigh. C O M P R E H E N S I O N

I don't care if the words came from God on high, if you don't understand them, they won't do you a bit of good. You took a message and tried to fit it into your view of the world, and it doesn't fit. You would know that if you could read and understand.



You obviously did NOT view the video. (The time between my post and yours confirms that.)

What are you afraid of?

The truth shouldn't hurt ...






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I have been Sky! 26 years and counting! Too bad you you can't say the same. I know it hurts.

 

You recall incorrectly. Faulty automation started the chain.

 

It wasn't turned off. It disconnected when the air data computers lost valid info. The pilot's reaction was to climb. Valid air data was available again within a minute. They "flew" all the way down with valid info.

 

I routinely fly the A300 to 290 and last week shot visuals to several runways with either no instrument approach or notamed ots. How is automation going to fly a visual apch? If loosing hand flying skills is a problem for someone they just need to look in the mirror to find the problem. Every plane I have flown has had a autopilot disconnect button and had the ability to MEL both autopilots for dispatch.

 

Flight Safety Foundation, Not Flight Safety International the training people.

About the Foundation | Flight Safety Foundation

 

I completely disagree that "complete" automation is inevitable. Even the newest of new airplanes being built today don't don't auto flighplan, auto pre-flight, auto walk-around, auto taxi, auto dock at the gate, auto takeoff, auto configure, listen to a controller's instructions and do them (flip side for ATC ... they don't/can't control aircraft without a pilot), auto land (all weather/wind conditions that humans can land in), auto land when the ILS critical area isn't protected, automatically take care of all emergencies, avoid obstacles/birds, see and avoid, follow traffic visually to a runway, visual approach land, keeping takeoff traffic insight on the runway while given takeoff clearance on the same runway, auto abort, know when a cloud just isn't a cloud even though it isn't painting anything on the radar, on and on and on and on ...

Training new pilots on moving maps and glass has NOTHING to do with your argument. My non-glass airplane does the same thing my glass airplane does ... just with more switches and analog technology and displays! But BOTH still have to be flown ... by hands of a pilot, or thru the fingers of a pilot using switches/FMS key strokes.

Dude, you hate this industry. You made a bad decision getting into it. And you consistently want to bring us down so you can feel better about your decision to leave it. It isn't for you. Stop the hate. Move on, the people on here who love their jobs, and are thankful they don't fly a desk.