ATC communications question
11-21-2013 | 09:38 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Done Dreaming
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 287
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From: Retired
ATC communications question
I know a guy who doesn't believe that he has to repeat the new frequency to the controller. Like this:
ATC: XYZ1234 switch to Whoville on 125.55
Him: Roger, XYZ1234.
Very competent airline guy...just doesn't believe that the FAA or the AIM mandates repeating the frequency.
I checked the AIM and the only thing I found was ambiguous...
4-2-3 d.1 says: When advised by ATC to change frequencies, acknowledge the instruction.
I've been doing this a long time and I ALWAYS hear guys read back with the assigned frequency.
Anyone find anything definitive about this?
ATC: XYZ1234 switch to Whoville on 125.55
Him: Roger, XYZ1234.
Very competent airline guy...just doesn't believe that the FAA or the AIM mandates repeating the frequency.
I checked the AIM and the only thing I found was ambiguous...
4-2-3 d.1 says: When advised by ATC to change frequencies, acknowledge the instruction.
I've been doing this a long time and I ALWAYS hear guys read back with the assigned frequency.
Anyone find anything definitive about this?
11-21-2013 | 09:57 AM
#2
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 14
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From: Light Twin FO
ICAO Manual, Chapter 2.8.2 Transfer of communications.
http://dcaa.trafikstyrelsen.dk:8000/...ed.%202007.pdf
http://dcaa.trafikstyrelsen.dk:8000/...ed.%202007.pdf
11-21-2013 | 10:32 AM
#3
New boss = Old boss
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,763
Likes: 1
From: Ca B737
Yeah, I'm not going to read that to find the answer. IMHO one does not have to read back the freq unless they want silent conformation that they get the freq right. If they read it back wrong the controller has a chance to correct the pilot. Other than that who cares? If I'm transfered to tower, and it's busy, I'll just "roger tower g'day." I might not even use my call sign. 20,000 hours of this and I've never heard a complaint. I guess it's Okay.
11-21-2013 | 12:53 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Done Dreaming
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Retired
Yeah, I'm not going to read that to find the answer. IMHO one does not have to read back the freq unless they want silent conformation that they get the freq right. If they read it back wrong the controller has a chance to correct the pilot. Other than that who cares? If I'm transfered to tower, and it's busy, I'll just "roger tower g'day." I might not even use my call sign. 20,000 hours of this and I've never heard a complaint. I guess it's Okay.
I've switched to tower with a quick call sign acknowledgement myself but the tower freq is easy to find. Trying to find a sector frequency on an enroute chart or worse an EFB can be challenging
11-21-2013 | 01:58 PM
#5
ATC retired/121 hired
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 164
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From: 121 FO / glider for fun
It would be nice to hear the freq but if I'm busy all I need is a call sign, just make sure you get it right when you make the switch. And please use your call sign with any readback.
11-21-2013 | 03:00 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Done Dreaming
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From: Retired
Interesting...while flying with this guy who didn't include the freq on read back, the controller pointedly asked him to read it back...London airspace. That's why I'm bringing this up...a discussion in the cockpit ensued...I'm on the read back the freq side but haven't found anything specific one way or the other to back up my belief.
11-21-2013 | 06:28 PM
#7
ATC retired/121 hired
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 164
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From: 121 FO / glider for fun
2−4−3. PILOT ACKNOWLEDGMENT/READ BACK
a. When issuing clearances or instructions, ensure acknowledgment by the pilot. If no acknowledgment is received, attempt to re−establish contact. If attempts are unsuccessful, advise the FLM/CIC.
NOTE−
Pilots may acknowledge clearances, instructions, or other information by using “Wilco,” “Roger,” “Affirmative,” or other words or remarks.
REFERENCE−
AIM, Para 4−2−3, Contact Procedures.
b. Ifaltitude,heading,orotheritemsarereadback by the pilot, ensure the read back is correct. If incorrect or incomplete, make corrections as appropriate.
From FAA order JO 7110.65U - the interpretation which is given to us is if you read it back wrong it's on me. If you just say roger or wilco it's on you. If you say nothing who knows? Changing freqs without a good bye can become a real pain.
a. When issuing clearances or instructions, ensure acknowledgment by the pilot. If no acknowledgment is received, attempt to re−establish contact. If attempts are unsuccessful, advise the FLM/CIC.
NOTE−
Pilots may acknowledge clearances, instructions, or other information by using “Wilco,” “Roger,” “Affirmative,” or other words or remarks.
REFERENCE−
AIM, Para 4−2−3, Contact Procedures.
b. Ifaltitude,heading,orotheritemsarereadback by the pilot, ensure the read back is correct. If incorrect or incomplete, make corrections as appropriate.
From FAA order JO 7110.65U - the interpretation which is given to us is if you read it back wrong it's on me. If you just say roger or wilco it's on you. If you say nothing who knows? Changing freqs without a good bye can become a real pain.
11-25-2013 | 05:40 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: In the TRACON
Like Toast said, please say goodbye one way or another....when pilots switch without some sort of acknowledgment, I don't know if you heard me. When I try again and you don't answer, I don't know if you switched without saying goodbye or if you're NORDO, so now I have to call the next guy, who might be busy, and find out if you're there.
And please use your callsign with every readback. I might know it was you, but the FAA is putting procedural errors on controllers because the only pilot on freq didn't use his callsign and the controller didn't go back and make the pilot read back the instruction and callsign in the same transmission.
And please use your callsign with every readback. I might know it was you, but the FAA is putting procedural errors on controllers because the only pilot on freq didn't use his callsign and the controller didn't go back and make the pilot read back the instruction and callsign in the same transmission.
11-25-2013 | 07:03 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,065
Likes: 40
From: 767 Captain
And please use your callsign with every readback. I might know it was you, but the FAA is putting procedural errors on controllers because the only pilot on freq didn't use his callsign and the controller didn't go back and make the pilot read back the instruction and callsign in the same transmission.
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