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Old 04-05-2015, 10:39 AM   #1  
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Default Sexual harassment @ Skywest, or elsewhere

Taken from the Skywest thread in the Regional forum (page 995), as I did not want to thread-jack and feel this topic (and post) deserves a thread of it's own in response...

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Originally Posted by flyinjgirl View Post
The culture of sexual harassment at Skywest is bad. I don't know why I would write this to you since you obviously endorse it. I just hope other females will know they aren't alone and may come forward as well. I was pressured and threatened to sleep with my IOE captain or not pass. Another IOE captain forced himself onto a female Skywest captain during her IOE and she had to physically fight him off. None of us report it because we stand to lose everything. To be shunned by our fellow pilots and blackballed by the industry. You all think it was our fault or just the way it is. This is part of why a union is needed. Few other industries would tolerate this kind of behavior. In aviation it is widespread and the norm. It's just a matter of time.

Jgirl-

I absolutely abhor ungentlemanly (and, it should be said, unlady-like) conduct. Sexual harassment like this is a very, very big deal and goes WAY past simple teasing/flirting between the sexes. Corporations who are caught failing to address it (and those that perpetrate it) are liable for HUGE $$ penalties and job loss. As a man I, for one, am sorry you (or any woman) experience(d) this.

If I were a female in this industry, I would get a voice recorder app on my cell phone and use it religiously, thanks to the handful of douche-bags like those in your post who lay claim to being professional pilots. It cannot ever be stressed enough that being a professional pilot is a mentality and a mind-set (as is being a gentleman or a lady), not a matter of being paid to fly (or simply being male or female). I hope you never come across another one of these line-apes, but if you do, I hope that you can catch him in the act so he can be weeded out of our community. Permanently.

By that same token, gentlemen(?), I would caution that not only are these apps very powerful and produce great sound quality, but one never knows what savvy lady has one turned on recording the conversation. KEEP IT PROFESSIONAL. I'm confident that 99% of us respect our piloting sisters for the same desires, skill, and passion for aviation we all share. For you 1%ers, respect that she may be (hopefully is) recording you and save your douche-baggery for when you are off the line.

That all said, I'd like to add the general comment that only true idiots $hit where they eat. NEVER, EVER TRY TO (much less) DATE/HOOK UP WITH ANYONE YOU WORK WITH (ie. in the same company)! But by all means, please ignore this advice. You will pay dearly for it, and you will only have yourself to blame. This last para. goes for you ladies as much as for the men.
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:58 AM   #2  
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Originally Posted by FaceBiter View Post
Tl;dr.....
tb;ss it is one of the better posts I have seen on this forum

SayAlt,
Thank you. Wise advice for everyone.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:00 AM   #3  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SayAlt View Post
Taken from the Skywest thread in the Regional forum (page 995), as I did not want to thread-jack and feel this topic (and post) deserves a thread of it's own in response...




Jgirl-

I absolutely abhor ungentlemanly (and, it should be said, unlady-like) conduct. Sexual harassment like this is a very, very big deal and goes WAY past simple teasing/flirting between the sexes. Corporations who are caught failing to address it (and those that perpetrate it) are liable for HUGE $$ penalties and job loss. As a man I, for one, am sorry you (or any woman) experience(d) this.

If I were a female in this industry, I would get a voice recorder app on my cell phone and use it religiously, thanks to the handful of douche-bags like those in your post who lay claim to being professional pilots. It cannot ever be stressed enough that being a professional pilot is a mentality and a mind-set (as is being a gentleman or a lady), not a matter of being paid to fly (or simply being male or female). I hope you never come across another one of these line-apes, but if you do, I hope that you can catch him in the act so he can be weeded out of our community. Permanently.

By that same token, gentlemen(?), I would caution that not only are these apps very powerful and produce great sound quality, but one never knows what savvy lady has one turned on recording the conversation. KEEP IT PROFESSIONAL. I'm confident that 99% of us respect our piloting sisters for the same desires, skill, and passion for aviation we all share. For you 1%ers, respect that she may be (hopefully is) recording you and save your douche-baggery for when you are off the line.

That all said, I'd like to add the general comment that only true idiots $hit where they eat. NEVER, EVER TRY TO (much less) DATE/HOOK UP WITH ANYONE YOU WORK WITH (ie. in the same company)! But by all means, please ignore this advice. You will pay dearly for it, and you will only have yourself to blame. This last para. goes for you ladies as much as for the men.
I agree whole-heartedly with the sentiment. But many states have laws forbidding secret recording of other parties without their knowledge/consent. Many a fool has tried to use such a recording in employment, civil or minor criminal matters only to end up a felon after they turned in the evidence against themselves!

If you're going to record people, better know the law. Also it varies by state and possibly municipality...if you're recording somebody over a four-day trip, you almost certainly committed a crime somewhere.

You also violated both an FAR and federal criminal law by using a PED in the cockit (between block in and block out)...and you supplied the evidence.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:18 AM   #4  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Many a fool has tried to use such a recording in employment, civil or minor criminal matters only to end up a felon after they turned in the evidence against themselves!
So don't turn it in. Just turn it on when one needs to convince someone else that one has been attacked. As a percentage of incidents, HR matters rarely go to court or involve the police.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
If you're going to record people, better know the law. Also it varies by state and possibly municipality...if you're recording somebody over a four-day trip, you almost certainly committed a crime somewhere.
My position is that this isn't a crime unless the recording is used to commit a crime, such as blackmail for example. It certainly isn't a crime when used to protect oneself from predators.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
You also violated both an FAR and federal criminal law by using a PED in the cockit (between block in and block out)
Sincerely,
the FAA approved iPad EFB


Rick - please don't take my response here as a refutation of yours. These are just my personal opinions and could be very wrong. I'd like to see the laws re-worded to allow the use of PED's for the purposes we're discussing here.

Btw, one can always claim one was in the process of making a simple voice memo to remind themselves of "xyz" and just happened to catch the assault on tape.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:29 AM   #5  
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deleted......

Last edited by 155mm; 04-05-2015 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:29 AM   #6  
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Mods:All mention of skywest should be deleted. It was proven before this thread was made that the original accuser and proposed victim of skywest pilots doesn't even work here and was looking for an interview a few posts back.
This is an import discussion as it does unfortunately still happen, but all mention of Skywest fault should be removed.
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:05 PM   #7  
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Mods:All mention of skywest should be deleted. It was proven before this thread was made that the original accuser and proposed victim of skywest pilots doesn't even work here and was looking for an interview a few posts back.
This is an import discussion as it does unfortunately still happen, but all mention of Skywest fault should be removed.
But she did work here when the supposed instance took place. And since she applied again, that makes it so it didn't happen?

Head over to the SAPA forums if you want to control speech and delete threads. This is an important discussion in the appropriate area of the forums. smh
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:08 PM   #8  
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This thread is a joke. Secretly recording people? Not dating anyone from work ever? Get a grip. Someone trying to get re hired then accusing people of sexual harassment when that doesn't happen. C'mon.
C'mon FaceBiter. You know we are hiring anyone with a pulse right now. The fact that she wasn't hired makes me think it may be true.

I know someone who failed out of training, applied again and failed the sim, and now has SW calling him once a month to see if he wants to back. I don't buy the fact that she is making up the story just because she didn't get the job.
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:26 PM   #9  
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Originally Posted by FaceBiter View Post
Tl;dr.....
Ditto Tl;dr

Sexual harassment Panda

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OQnNH7I07RY
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:31 PM   #10  
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