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Old 04-23-2007, 04:20 PM   #1  
La Familia Delta
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Default Skywest ATC Warnings?????

After I quit skywest I got an email from the ALPA organizing committee in response to an email sent out to skywest pilots. can someone enlighten me as to what that email was all about. The ALPA response is below:

---------------------------------------------

April 19, 2007

Fellow SkyWest Pilots,

On April 13, 2007 all SkyWest Pilots received an e-mail from the chief pilots regarding an increasing number of ATC reportable pilot deviations. This communication from the chief pilots provides yet another opportunity to discuss the difference between having legal representation and protection provided by ALPA, and what we currently have, which is no legal representation or protection at all.

·If the SkyWest ASAP was operating as intended, and if SkyWest pilots had ALPA representing them on the Event Review Committee (ERC), ASAP should have identified the increase in pilot deviations long before an ATC facility could have. In a working program, individual pilots would be submitting sole source reports on any deviations that occurred and which ATC did not identify.

·The e-mail from the chief pilots describes a process (ATC calling the chief pilot directly) for identifying and resolving pilot deviations that is contrary to the normal FAA coordination process between ATC facilities and Flight Standards offices. Normally, when ATC becomes aware of a pilot deviation, they would notify the local Flight Standards District Office who would then coordinate with the SkyWest Certificate Management Office, because SkyWest has ASAP. Assuming the ATC had properly notified the flight crew of the deviation, the crew would have already filed an ASAP report and the ERC would then handle the matter in accordance with ASAP policy and procedures. If the process worked as intended under ASAP, the pilots involved would be afforded the protections under the program.

·In addition, the disciplinary action described in the e-mail, i.e., the counseling of individual pilots, does nothing to correct the behavior of the individuals involved in the incident. More importantly, this individual counseling does nothing to educate the remainder of the pilot population about the details of the incident so that they can protect themselves from falling into the same trap. If ASAP is working properly, the ERC, with the help of the involved crew members, would identify the safety problems, develop corrective actions for implementation and educate the rest of the pilot group at SkyWest so that the same error was not repeated.

·In any case, whether you have made an ASAP report or if ATC took notice and you failed to report the incident, as an ALPA member you would have personal representation, including an ALPA attorney if necessary, when dealing with the Chief Pilot, other SkyWest management representatives, or the FAA. Without ALPA representation, if you make a mistake and ATC notifies your Chief Pilot, you will be called into the Chief Pilot’s office for counseling. This counseling could result in a number of different actions by the Chief Pilot, including placing information in your file that may well be transferable to future employers under the PRIA Act. Additionally, if the incident was not reported to ASAP you could be facing direct enforcement action by the FAA. Furthermore, at SkyWest, filing an ASAP report does not protect you against company discipline.

To ensure that you are fairly represented in these matters, the Organizing Committee urges all SkyWest pilots to return your Authorization for Representation Election card today to enable you to have a voice in a representation election. And, when that election is held, we urge you to vote FOR ALPA as our collective bargaining agent and the benefits that ALPA membership provides.

As the SkyWest Pilots ALPA campaign continues, the Organizing Committee will continue to bring to your attention the benefits of representation. Please contact us if you have any questions about how ASAP works at other ALPA carriers, and make sure to look for an article about the history of ASAP in the upcoming issue of the SkyWest ALPA Update.

SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee
www.skywestalpa.org
1-888-SKY-ALPA
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Old 04-23-2007, 07:48 PM   #2  
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If the warning is the one I'm thinking about, it said that we should use the individual numbers in our call signs, instead of group form, while around ORD.

Skywest ONE TWO THREE FOUR, instead of Skywest TWELVE THIRTY FOUR
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Old 04-23-2007, 08:43 PM   #3  
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If the warning is the one I'm thinking about, it said that we should use the individual numbers in our call signs, instead of group form, while around ORD.
His post went over your head, didn't it

Guys, this is why you need ALPA. It ain't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than what you got now .

Here's the original memo:

-----------------
To all crews:
ATC is WATCHING you!!!!
Over the past several months there has been a dramatic increase in the number of pilot deviations involving SkyWest Aircraft in the national airspace system. As a result of this, ATC and the Chief Pilots’ will be enforcing a zero tolerance policy for ATC deviations.

ATC doesn’t like to take action against pilots if it can be helped, but the amount of deviations needs to be curbed and from now on ATC will be taking action in all pilot deviations regardless of whether a loss of separation occurred or not.

ATC managers call us anytime there is a pilot deviation of any kind. If a deviation is reported to us by ATC you will be called in to the Chief Pilots office for counseling.

We realize that the vast majority of you operate in a safe, conscientious and vigilant manner and appreciate your attention to detail. Please help your passengers, SkyWest, and ATC out by continuing to foster this mentality in your peers.

Use good radio procedures, CRM, follow SOP and most of all stay sharp and professional! The gun sights are on us and we don’t want to see anyone of you involved in certificate action.

Call anytime with questions.

-----------------

So let's see - a zero tolerance policy now in effect. I wonder if they are going to continue submitting ASAP reports? That's some choice - screw up and submit an ASAP to protect your certificate but lose your job or risk not filling out an ASAP but lose your job and certificates if the FAA catches you...sweet.
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:50 PM   #4  
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The ASRS website de-identifies the info. When you fill out the report you have FAA protection. You can still receive a violation but not a suspension. If you have any violations in 5 years then the report does no good. If the company finds out then they will do whatever they want if you don't have a union.
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Old 04-24-2007, 03:47 AM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fosters View Post
...

ATC managers call us anytime there is a pilot deviation of any kind. If a deviation is reported to us by ATC you will be called in to the Chief Pilots office for counseling.
...

wow. no thanks i'd like my union rep please
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:00 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflpilot View Post
The ASRS website de-identifies the info. When you fill out the report you have FAA protection. You can still receive a violation but not a suspension. If you have any violations in 5 years then the report does no good. If the company finds out then they will do whatever they want if you don't have a union.
While you are entitled to the same protections, ASRS is meant for bugsmashers and weekend warriors, not professional airline pilots.

Even (God forbid) a P-56 incursion is sealed under ASAP, unreportable to a PRIA request. No matter how bad you screw up, as long as it wasn't intentional and there is a lesson to be learned ASAP provides protection from the FAA as well as protection from disciplinary company action.
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Old 04-24-2007, 02:41 PM   #7  
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
While you are entitled to the same protections, ASRS is meant for bugsmashers and weekend warriors, not professional airline pilots.

Even (God forbid) a P-56 incursion is sealed under ASAP, unreportable to a PRIA request. No matter how bad you screw up, as long as it wasn't intentional and there is a lesson to be learned ASAP provides protection from the FAA as well as protection from disciplinary company action.
Not sure where you got this information, but this is NOT true. ASRS is for all aviation, GA, 91, 135, 121, military. Look at the front of the form and it has a break down of who has submitted them.
In fact, ASRS was created after a TWA crash in Virginia in 1974.
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Old 04-24-2007, 06:20 PM   #8  
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I work 135, and it helped in my "situation." It was a pile of crap to start with, but the ASRS was a bonus.
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:21 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawk View Post
Not sure where you got this information, but this is NOT true. ASRS is for all aviation, GA, 91, 135, 121, military. Look at the front of the form and it has a break down of who has submitted them.
In fact, ASRS was created after a TWA crash in Virginia in 1974.
True, however at airlines that have ASAP in place aircrews have better protections than that offered by ASRS. ASRS was created with all of aviation in mind, however over the years it has failed to grow with the safety concepts that airlines and national unions have developed for professional flight crews. ASAP is a much more appropriate program for part 121 operations, and it offers much more in the way of protections, provided that it is set up correctly and has union representation on the ASAP committee.
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:32 PM   #10  
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True, however at airlines that have ASAP in place aircrews have better protections than that offered by ASRS. ASRS was created with all of aviation in mind, however over the years it has failed to grow with the safety concepts that airlines and national unions have developed for professional flight crews. ASAP is a much more appropriate program for part 121 operations, and it offers much more in the way of protections, provided that it is set up correctly and has union representation on the ASAP committee.
The two programs supplement each other. ASAP is still an INTERNAL safety program for the most part, while ASRS is external. The idea behind ASRS was not to protect the careers of airline pilots, but to protect the lives of people by disiminating safety information and identifying safety problems. The problem with the TWA crash that I mentioned is that just a little prior to this accident the safety problem was identified by another airline but not passed on to other airlines. ASRS is designed to help prevent this from happening again. Some how the idea has arisen that ASRS is your "get out of jail free card". It's your "save someones life" card.
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