ShyGuy

True. But that comment was directed at those who are clueless to the difference between Sunnis and Shias, thinking we can take the Sunni political party out of power in Iraq and install a Shia party leadership in Iraq and then leave for various reasons, and then expect or think they would be able to have the will to fight or hold off the inevitable power shift back to a Sunni leadership party. And for those who think that carpet bombing the hell out of Iraq and Syria would suddenly reign peace in Europe. You can't bomb your way out of an ideology.

Absolutely. Very sadly true.

I'm an American Muslim, immigrated here a long time ago, and our family are American loving US citizens. I'll call them exactly for who they are: they are lunatics. Iraq/Syria is a power struggle for land and an establishment of a Sunni power over that of a Shia majority, which is what they were left with when we left/asked to leave Iraq. Today, it's a civil war between the two which basically means a proxy war between the heavily Sunni Saudi Arabia and the heavily Shia Iran. Each side has their own interest, and not necessarily aligned with what you and I would think is best.



Okay, I guess thanks for calling millions of people irrelevant. Now, how about answering her question? How do we fight ideology in a globalized world? I don't think we can bomb our way out of this one.

Fluglehrer

Tough to do. One famed individual has described a certain retrograde quaility that makes any reformation nearly impossible (his personal opinion): Winston Churchill on Islam : snopes.com

Many of these adherents to ISIS were born and raised in Europe, went through the respective European public schools, and have rewarding jobs. That doesn't prevent commitment to something they consider higher and more worthy than decadent materialism (for a non-religious take on it, watch the beginning 5 minutes and ending 5 minutes of the movie Trainspotting, with Ewan McGregor explaining it in secular terms).

I don't have an answer, but it will require engaging the ideology (and not making excuses for it) more than killing. If it is truly a retrograde force, it will require massive ideological engagement (and a fair amount of killing). Marie Harf isn't the one to do this.

John Carr

Indeed. Although my questions were slightly rhetorical. But yes, it would be tough. With no simple solution, if any.


famed individual has described a certain retrograde quaility that makes any reformation nearly impossible (his personal opinion): Winston Churchill on Islam : snopes.com

Many of these adherents to ISIS were born and raised in Europe, went through the respective European public schools, and have rewarding jobs. That doesn't prevent commitment to something they consider higher and more worthy than decadent materialism (for a non-religious take on it, watch the beginning 5 minutes and ending 5 minutes of the movie Trainspotting, with Ewan McGregor explaining it in secular terms).[/QUOTE]

True. But not unlike some of the inner city gang issues states. There's the opposite. They grew up with no hope, no job, no money, a viloent way of life, and no future. So becoming radicalized and "belonging" to something, becoming part of a "brotherhood" is a way for them to feel important.

Oh yeah, they could stand to get laid too.

Scroll to about :50

block30

Referencing the first sentence and some other posts;
Quite a number of us have experience all over the world through the military, flying as ex pats, other jobs held, or simply using our travel benefits. Honestly, I haven't run across a more worldly group than that of professional pilots. I'm not arguing we're perfect, but there is a lot of collective professional and life experience to be found. If there is a group of folks to sneer at for lack of knowledge, understanding, world experience, etc....this is not that group.

Many of us have placed our lives in the hands of and/or risked our lives for people of different races, cultures, nationalities, and so on.

Just because someone questions an ideology/belief/ethos/allegiance doesn't automatically make them a hateful person. Saying there are idealogies that can and cannot be questioned...now that is dangerous, and it seems clear to me that putting subjects off limits is exaclty what some folks are trying to do.

iceman49

Unfortunately that goes without saying.

Flying Boxes

The point is not to be silent or say "hey, were not all terrorist"! The Muslim world needs to be more vocal in denouncing the extremist.

You said your family is well educated professionals in the US. Great, stop being the silent majority saying "I'm not a terrorist" and say "these terrorist acts are not part of the religion." Instead of referencing irrelevant history, name calling, and religious hate toward Israel. If you do not see the difference between the crazy mental people and what is going in the world because of IS then you are irrelevant! NRA, US History, Israel, foreign policy, economics, etc. has nothing to do with this!

jungle

Sweden: "No Apartments, No Jobs, No Shopping Without A Gun" | Zero Hedge

As far as bombing your way out of an ideology, well old son, that is only going to take about twenty minutes if the tipping point is reached.
Play with Russia, China and the US and you may get your clock turned back 400 years if you so desire. They can accommodate your wishes.

jungle

True. But not unlike some of the inner city gang issues states. There's the opposite. They grew up with no hope, no job, no money, a viloent way of life, and no future. So becoming radicalized and "belonging" to something, becoming part of a "brotherhood" is a way for them to feel important.

Oh yeah, they could stand to get laid too.

Scroll to about :50[/QUOTE]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v6uBkJSbQO0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UjEiBNN33Rw

ShyGuy

The world does not have a unified Muslim voice. Various reasons, perhaps a big one being there is no one central power/source/voice that speaks for the rest. No pope-type figure.

That doesn't need to be said. You see how we are in the US. We're like any other American citizen. Clearly and obviously these acts are not a part of our religion. I'm not going to state what should be obvious. 2 billion people in the world are not shooting others and shouting dirka dirka. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. I can't make excuses for what someone else does. My religion to me is my own personal thing, and mine alone. I don't tell others what isn't my business.

I did not resort to name calling. The history isn't irrelevant, it's actually very relevant. ISIS was not around and would not be around with Saddam Hussein in control of Iraq ruling with the iron fist like he was. We took out one so-called madman and left the place thinking everything would work out but it didn't. The inevitable civil war erupted between the Sunnis and Shias.

I don't need to a see a difference here. I look at statistics and facts. And fact remains today that since 9/11, when you compare terrorist deaths to US citizens on our home soil and compare it to just about every other form of violence, those come out ahead. We've spent billions on the so-called war on terror, given plenty of our own freedoms away in the process, exchanging freedoms for some sense of security, all to protect being attacked by a terrorist. Meanwhile, our mass shootings here from mostly mental nutjobs continues at a rate of 1 every 8-9 months or so and kills far more US citizens. We haven't done anything to change or address these issues.

jungle

Shy, surely you understand that the only remedy for a madman with a gun involves a good guy with a gun.

Unless of course you have developed some alternate plan which you might share with us.