Training is at simcom in Orlando, cost $10K.
Is is a good company to fly for too. I will most likely take it if it is offered.

 

Yes, I meant PIC.

You can be PIC on a learjet without an ATP. ATP is only required for 121 PIC.

 

Wait...what? If you fly as PIC in a turbojet, you have to have an ATP.

 

Not under Part 91.

...or cargo 135. Only pax 135 (or EOD ops) would require an ATP for 135 turbojet PIC.

But no, I wouldn't pay for it. A few problems I see.
1) There are lots of lear guys out there that are PIC typed, 135 current and jobless.
2) They have time in type.
3) Insurance likes 1 and 2.
4) They have to train someone anyway. Whoever it is, they are legally required (135) to train them and check them. The SIC type can be done as part of that checking event. If the sim center won't do it for free, you can cover the SIC type stuff with a company instructor in one domestic flight and take the 8710 and endorsement to the FSDO.

-mini

 

Maybe, but try getting the company to fly empty so I can get my one domestic flight is not going to happen either. They do have the required training material, I just think it would be cheaper (for either party) to do that flight in a sim.

 

Ahh The PFT is making a come back.

 

Again I see two possible paths in this scenario.

It seems to me if you could go over the books on your own, then rent the aircraft and do the three bounces/OEI/and CRM in the aircraft locally and submit an 8710 to the FSDO you should be able to do the whole thing for around $2000. If that's an option, that would be the route I'd probably take, simply because you're saving yourself around $8000. I also understand that may not be an option due to either company preference or insurance requirements.

If that is the case, it still might be worthwhile to go the SimCom route. I would presume if you are going to spend $10K, then that is the full initial ground school and simulator training. While SimCom's website doesn't list prices, full PIC initial is only one additional sim session (for the type ride) beyond what is done for the full SIC program. That said, I would really look at doing the PIC type rating if you could (assuming the $ aren't too different). As I read the reg, you are still going to need one landing in the aircraft for

I was going to PM you the following, but then I realized you don't have enough posts yet:
I know you said you are low ME time, I'm curious about your total time and ME times are, as well as what the rest of your training background is. The reason ask is I had a similar opportunity when I was starting off (the big difference being I didn't have to spend my own money, but then mine wasn't for a paying position). At the time I had about 650TT, 110ME (85 or so right seat turboprop). I was at Purdue at the time, and went to FlightSafety for full SIC initial on their dime to fly right seat in the Diamond IA they had at the time. My group was the first batch they tried this with, and we only received SIC training. That said, all we would have to do for the type (which was given to later groups) was an additional sim session and a couple of approaches and landings in the aircraft (we had to do 3 landings in the aircraft anyway).

The point here not being to bore you with my war stories, but having been in a somewhat similar position I have some idea of where you're at, and what you can probably expect during training.

I actually agree with everything Minitour has to say, in that a PIC type isn't going to do anything for you at this time, but come to a slightly different conclusion overall because I see value in it down the road. When it was time for me to take my ATP ride, I did it in a Citation and got the CE-500 type rating as well - when it came to interviews it (amongst other things) seemed to answer the unasked question of "can this guy make it through a type rating course."

It also opens up the possibility (as economy improves) of hiring yourself out as a SIC contract pilot. Don't kid yourself that this is going to be easy to do - most companies hire PIC's when they need a contract pilot, but if you get out and beat the bushes and get to know other LR operators, you might impress some of them enough with your professionalism, competence, and recommendations from your captains to give you a shot.

Mini is correct that no one is going to take you seriously as a LR PIC with low TT and ME time. Assuming you fly a reasonable amount at this operator, that will change over time, and at some point you could have the time, but not the type. If you are doing recurrent at SimCom (or another provider) or 135 checks you can always tack on the PIC type at later date, but to me a PIC type rating is sort of like a seniority number - don't pass one up. In the case of the PIC type - the caveat being IF (and that's a big IF) you are going to spend your money for a full initial, then get everything you can out of it. Circumstances change, employers sell aircraft or go out of business and suddenly the next recurrent when you were going to get that PIC type evaporates - now your sitting there with an SIC type and a bunch of time in the airplane, and you've drastically reduced the options available to you.

To me, if you have the opportunity (and get the PIC type), in reality you're effectively working your first year for regional wages, but you now have a type rating in your pocket that no one (except the FAA) can take away from you which can help you get a job and earn a living down the road. To me that's a better gig with better QOL than the regionals (with the exception of you almost undoubtedly won't be building flight time as rapidly).


Sorry to be so long-winded on this. Good luck getting the offer and then having to make the decision!

 

Most companies I know have to position the plane to the customer. Not every customer is going to come to "Bob's FBO" at "Podunk County Municipal Airport" (or whatever) to hop onto a Lear.

Eventually, you're going to have to position the plane empty (probably at the customer's cost so not "technically" part 91). And if it isn't an international trip, then you don't need the SIC "type" anyway. Unless every trip ends up in Canada, Mexico or somewhere down in the islands, I don't think that's going to be a problem.

Add to that, the company has to train you anyway. Period. It's required under 135. Whether they send you to a sim center or do it in the plane, they have to do it. As I said, if you do it in the sim, part of your SIC 135.293 checks will probably include the SIC type. When I say "probably" I mean "more than likely".

-mini

 

[quote=bcrosier;848887]

To me, if you have the opportunity (and get the PIC type), in reality you're effectively working your first year for regional wages, but you now have a type rating in your pocket that no one (except the FAA) can take away from you which can help you get a job and earn a living down the road. To me that's a better gig with better QOL than the regionals (with the exception of you almost undoubtedly won't be building flight time as rapidly).quote]


bcrosier

I like your thought process, and if given the opportunity, I will ask about doing the PIC type instead of a SIC.
My total time is just over 750 with about 36 multi. All in the Dutchess and KingAir.
It all dosent matter though if I can't get the job, but I am pretty sure I will. And I totally agree about the QOL being better than the Regionals. As it stands right now, I can't even meet their mins anyway.
Thanks

 

Just tread lightly...750 hours is still just starting out in this career and if you let this option that will cost you 10 grand out of pocket it certainly will not be your last chance.

I say again, 10 grand is a TON of money to pay for a job. Hang in there, keep doing what you are doing to build some competitive times and you will get a lear job and the company will pay for it. Unless you are absurdly loaded I just cant support paying this kind of money for a job without some sort of guarantee from them, preferably long term.


With that being said, let us know where you decide to go to get your type and how it went.