Window opens October 16th.
 

For those that are interested....October 16th is when then window opens.

Thanks! I was wondering if it would open close to ViB.

Assuming those who get apps in this upcoming window, but not the April window, aren't eligible for VIB?

I applied on two previous windows and received the VIB invite a couple of days ago. Not sure what the parameters are for getting selected. I know a couple of others in my unit who did not receive an invite even though they checked the military block. Any ideas? Luck of the draw?

Thanks for this info!

https://pilotcareers-endeavorair.ici...st-officer/job

That link will take you to higher first year pay than JB, assuming their TA passes.

(Cue the company apologists to jump all over me as they completely miss the point.)

The invites went out already and the window opens on October 16th.....not sure what the question is sorry.

Right now ViB only lets you go if you got an invite if you applied in April. The question is: if you apply when the Oct window opens here shortly, is there still a chance you can get a ViB invite since it will be a few weeks away?

Just seems like having a window open a few weeks before a job fair could enable those vets applying in this window to try to go to that job fair who didn't have an app in for the April window. With our unpredictable app windows as of late, it doesn't make it easy trying to figure that out. Several people I talked to didn't apply in April (availability being the primary factor) but have been asking when it would open, thinking there'd be a window before OBAP/VIB (like our August window we've had the last couple years). My guess is those guys are SOL, and my question was to confirm/deny that.

Nice one. Go to Delta and pay for ur hotel in training. Perhaps a Hawaiian app to 1yr $36/hr. Way to go brain!

-Bubs

Any idea how long it will stay open for?

thank you

It's not that he does not have a valid point about the first year pay. But, I hate that style of argument. Let me throw out something which we should talk about and there are valid points on both sides. But to win my argument before we start I will label anyone that does not agree with me as a company apologists, which makes their opinions invalid. We see it all the time these day just change the word to climate deniers or racist or whatever. It's a lazy way to argue a point.

Hey Bubs. 6 weeks in a hotel at 70 a night is 3150, even at 100 a night it's 4500. 4500/900 hours credit in one year comes out to be 5 dollars an hour. I think Deltas first year pay is quite a bit more than 5 dollars an hour above ours.

ATR's love affair with the regionals especially the one he left........

The Req would not be closed so I would say that would probably not happen.

I do not. I would get it in earlier than later. We are calling form the April REQ currently....

Whitehammer has it right. Paying for your hotel is a one-time, limited concession. The rest of your 1st year, and probably your entire career with what we know right now will be light years better at DL.

P3 what is Delta's 1st year pay rate? What is ours?

So your argument is We should be paid the same as Delta?

No one comments on the comparison of jetblue to a regional that, if I recall correctly, was called American Eagle?

Jetblue guys are in a dark place as we negotiate a CBA and try to figure out the direction of our future from a executive leadership and planning perspective. We should be encouraged that Endeavor pilots are getting a substantial agreement, that reflects their value to Endeavor and the companies they provide a service. Jetblue executive leadership should take note that dragging out this process isn’t in their best interests.

-Bubs

[QUOTE=atrdriver;2441755]https://pilotcareers-endeavorair.ici...st-officer/job

That link will take you to higher first year pay than JB, assuming their TA passes.

(Cue the company apologists to jump all over me as they completely miss the point.)[/QUOTE


How so? While I'll agree that their healthcare was much better when I was there, $50/hr doesn't equal $53. It also doesn't equal a 13% 401k contribution. They certainly won't see profit sharing while making a profit for Delta who are part of the same union, but don't share their profits. So ATR tell me where is the higher first year coming from? With this new "raise" they'll be losing the bonus program so as I see its kind of a wash. Much like 33% of your profit sharing so you may have an 8% hourly bump. Tit for tat.

Excellent news. Thank you for sharing.

[QUOTE=NJ123;2442548]Their bonus is being rolled into hard pay rates. I'd say that is definitely a win for a regional airline (and all airlines) and raises the bar on compensation. Bonuses are just a band-aid fix to a problem. If voted in, this would give Endeavor FOs hard pay and a very lovable wage they can count on into the future. And senior Captains can make close to what a CA at an LCC makes. Wages are still on the rise and everyone else that isn't a regional should take note and get what you deserve from your management team.

[QUOTE=chrisreedrules;2442856]Agree on everything you said except that I'm sure the vast majority of Jetblue's CA's are making a lot more than the TA'd Endeavor CA rate of $122/hour.

[QUOTE=nuball5;2442865]Correct but add in LCA override and premium pay and you get close and still maintain a decent QOL. Obviously not JetBlue CA rates, but more than livable and certainly worth noting for all airlines currently negotiating.

Not lazy... trying to head off the juicers who completely miss the point and drive the conversation away from the actual topic in an attempt to rationalize why our pay sucks.

Our first year pay is around $45,000 ($500/wk for 6-8 weeks, 53x75x10ish). I read their total comp is $67,000, although the number I came up with was $55,000. Still better than ours. I admit I'm not familiar with their current or TAd work rules, but they can't be worse than ours can they?

How are we supposed to recruit qualified candidates when a regional airline offers better first year compensation and better health care, and now better hotels? I see a lot of mil pilots going to 9e now for their 121 experience so they can get a well paying job instead of coming here and sticking around. Am I the only one who sees how embarrassing it is that a CRJ200 operator has better starting pay than us?

Nope it's lazy.

You're certainly not the only one. However I also remember what it was like to work for that company for less then $25/hr for 24 months. At the same time CAL, UAL, and the beloved DAL were all starting around $35. This was just a little less then a decade ago. All of this happening while JB was starting its new hires at ..... $47.00/hr and Spirit became the highest paid passenger airline in the country. It's cyclical. It's the process. I'm happy for the guys at 9E both the new guys from the MIL that I know that want to go back to DTW and can now make a decent wage doing it as well as the guys that have been there for the decade or more that I'd have been there. Everyone wants instant gratification. I applaud what the 9E guys have accomplished, but have a hard time thinking that our NC isn't putting together something pretty dang good for us that we can be proud of and others will congratulate us on as well.

The mere fact that JetBlue is being compared to a regional speaks volumes...

Should be a wake up call. Get what you can while the gettin' is good.

It was a statement made by ATR that caught my attention. In an attempt to debate with him. The very attitude that flying an A320 for JB is any better or worse then flying a 777 for Delta or a CRJ for bubbas air service speaks volumes to me. They negotiated a deal and the company said sure we can do that. It’s a cyclical process. As far as 9E goes they waited on a 99’ contract until 2010. They then went into bk 18 months later and were given the pre merger xj rates until this vote. Yes the company threw them a bone and gave them the “bonus”. Go ahead and tell a guy that waited nearly a decade for hiring to start elsewhere that he’s over paid because he flys a regional jet while we almighty here at jb are competing directly with said RJ in JAX, SAV, CHS, DEN, AUS, BTV, BUF, ROC. Point is all pilots deserve a fair wage. All ALPA Pilots should be happy for other ALPA Pilots getting the next better deal. Finally yes to quote someone else “better get while the gettin is good”.The next decade could be amazing or it could suck as the last one did.

He is not overpaid. We are grossly underpaid. That's the whole f&king point.

Tell us something we don't know.

This is why we voted in a union and are getting ready for a labor dispute.

Or the one he's with currently--B6:D

The fact that these 2 airlines are mentioned in the same paragraph speaks for itself- No argument needed.
B6 is 3/4 of a major or, if you like PP, a great regional airline. Obviously, thats on the present $hitbox contract. A new CBA in 18 months will be a vast improvement though.
Bpf is gonna love your check in the meantime. ;)

Again as the other guy said it's a cyclical industry. We can get into this over and over. When I was hired in 2004 at AWAC....CAL would not cover your first 6 months of insurance. It's not till recently that the majors have fixed first year pay. Again you don't see me defending our first year pay. Now if we want to get into it I can make the argument that you me and ATR seemed to be just fine with first year pay since we all willingly took the job here. That does not excuse the fact of we are where we are but these rates are public knowledge. Should we compare ourselves to a regional NO but at the same time ALK first year is 57 HAL 36 UPS 46. Is that OK and how did 9e pass them? I know you will say well it's just first year and they have a contract so you will be better off. I agree, and I think in the long run we will be the same.

We are doing massive work here. Building a union and a CBA from scratch, changing the way JetBlue as a company deals with pilots and changing the very "culture" of JetBlue.

This is a foundational contract and every future CBA here will be built on this. I want it done but I also want it done right. So this debate is slightly pointless. ATR was able to take a shot( I didnt argue that his pay issue was wrong) just that there is a lot to this debate.

Again not attack you in anyway. I just think if people want real debates you need to look at everything and how we are where we are. There are so many different parts that need to be taken into context.

I agree we are a regional airline with our route map, I also agree we will be much better off when we have a contract. The 18 month part I'm not so sure about :)

To be fair, there are plenty of pilots here who would not agree with you or me that we are extremely underpaid and that we deserve a contract on par with our peers.

Window opens October 16th.
 

I disagree with this. I think most understand exactly where we are, and where we are going. We voted in ALPA, and we are negotiating a CBA. It’s very disingenuous to say “LOOK at how underpaid we are!” as if the rest of the industry has always been SO far ahead, and we aren’t doing anything to fix it. The starting pay at all of the major airlines has only recently jumped. Some were in the $35 range not that long ago. We are working to close the gap that has recently appeared.

I think where people disagree centers around:

1. How miserable it is here (your opinion)
2. The timeline for our negotiations is too slow (your opinion)
3. That we should all be trying to leave. (Some of us want to stay and improve the place, and we aren’t miserable.)
4. That we should be discouraging people from coming here, because, my god, it’s miserable here.

Look, I understand your position. You’re frustrated. Got it. But you shouldn’t be angry at the majority who are not of like mind.

There are dumb people all over the place.

But with the vote total, our membership numbers and the amount of guys going to the two rallies, I would say those that disagree with us are in the minority.

As a former 9E guy, my knee jerk reaction is "What's the catch?" Could just be the 7 years of a beatdown I took there between contract negotiations, a failed TA that would have hosed every junior guy on property, a double merger and a bankruptcy, though. I hear it's better there now, but I see that wage and I immediately wanna start digging into the contract language on the work rules to find the loopholes. Maybe it's better, though.

One thing you can't argue with is our NC should take that to the table (if it passes) and say "A REGIONAL airline is now paying their FOs the equivalent of what we're paying. How are we going to attract quality talent going forward if we can't even compete with that? Oh, and their healthcare is better." I don't know if it actually is, but come on? How could it be worse. It was certainly better when I was there compared to what we have now. I remember complaining when I had to pay a $200 deductible. What's an extra $1100 per family member?

The longer this drags out, the more of a nightmare summer 2018 is gonna be staffing wise. And I'm not sure "It's ATC's fault" is going to work again two summers in a row.....

Didn't work this year. We were late today! ATC didn't fuel us until almost departure time....

More ontime flights, fixfueling.com

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