Southerner,

How do you know what obstacles the average white guy and average minority dealt with or overcame? Before you answer, remember that we’re not talking about general society in this discussion. We’re talking about hiring pilots. If my black friend, my female friend, and I are all applying for a position at Delta, how do YOU know who had more obstacles to overcome? Apparently, you think the black guy and the female should be given a “leg up” because they’re minorities. What if my black friend’s dad was a doctor and my mother was a single mom working nights at a hospital when I grew up? He was a Cosby kid and I was Eminem. What if the female was my sister and had the exact same life situation as me? What if all three of us went to the Air Force Academy together and just got done with our 10 year USAF commitments? Are they really at a disadvantage because they’re minorities? How do you decide how much advantage to give someone? Is there a scale? Single parent - 10 points. Black - 7 points. Asian - 6 points. Poor - 12 points. Otherwise, how do YOU rank the applicants? Obviously, the gay, Muslim, black female is first, but where do the other “minorities” fit in? Is the black guy above or below the female? What about an Asian guy? Do we even need to look at their qualifications or just their background?

You are advocating discrimination, pure and simple. If it wasn’t for in-person interviews, the company should have no idea what your race and gender are. Do you know why? Because they should have ZERO impact on you getting hired.

 

Although I mostly agree with you that we can do more, and I am not against "reverse" discrimination. Reading the last few pages, some replies to you make me want to wash my eyes... Having said that, I do think some of the reason some groups do better is somewhat self inflicted. As you say Asian-Americans do better than North-west-European-Americans (why is ok to say white, but yellow and black are offensive?). Most of those came here without a penny to their name, worked on the railroads, were interned in camps with their possessions lost, and managed to come out ahead due to strong family bonds and work ethics. There needs to be some culture changes in the groups who lag, otherwise you are only providing hand-outs without solving the underlying issue. "They" feel "we" owe "Them", and a lot of "Us" feel we have done enough.

 

I'm saying that the performance and behaviors of the individuals involved is shaped and formed largely from the socioeconomic situation that they find themselves in. I'm saying that it is difficult for an entire class of people to overcome centuries of discrimination and outright obstruction.

 

Yeah, it is a complicated issue. Unfortunately, we have transitioned into a very sad time in our nation's history, when people are more interested in "getting theirs" than making our society better. Great strides were made in the 1960s and early 1970s. But since the late 1970s when wages started to become flat, and running a business became more about what the company can do for the shareholders than for the workers, we started to stumble. The average American has fallen backwards, and those of lower socioeconomic status have tumbled farther. The middle class is going away.

Of course, that's a related, but separate discussion...

 

Then we should give hiring preference based on what socioeconomic status you were born into? Great, there are a bunch of white Appalachian kids raised by single moms who need a leg up over suburban kids (including black kids) from 2 parent family upper middle class households. But that's not what you had in mind, was it?

 

Oh you have your own bubble. What would I know I was just given everything.
(Still paying off my Aviation loan)

 

What?! You are a white male and didn’t have the world given to you on a silver platter!

 

So how did Asian-Americans pull that off?

 

Nope both sets of grand parents died with very little money. My parents are still working well into their 60s. My dad is a mason which was great some years and others not so much. They did give me a stable home but they sure didn’t pay for my school. The exact words were if you want it you pay for it. 3 jobs during the summer, and the first to get into Aviation. I did get one very lucky break by getting on here thanks to running into the right pilot but other than that I guess everything else was given to me.

No doubt different groups face obstacles but like others have said poor white kids in West VA have some major obstacles as well.

I’m all for equal opportunity but to think you will get equal results is insane.

Maybe living in my area and seeing many many successful “minority” families has me confused.

 

If you want to help poor minorities and women you need to "dirty your hands" and help poor white males equally or this country will end up in a very ugly place.

If you address poverty it will naturally impact those racial groups we all should care about without inciting justified anger in the poor white sections of society. (Trumps core group.)

Also it won't be racist and sexist so there is the benefit of practicing what you preach.