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Originally Posted by Southerner
(Post 2745831)
I'm not sure that's a hill that you want to die on. The FAA pretty much turns a blind eye to commuting, and says "I don't care what you do, just be fit for duty when you report for work." If we start making a stink about this, it is very possible that the company AND FAA come back and say "Fine. You must commute in with legal rest prior to reporting for duty."
No hill to die on. Read the FAA case law. Don't speculate in favor of draconian company exploitations. There is more than the 5 pages put out by ALPA. Go read all duty related case law on the FAA website. |
Originally Posted by Southerner
(Post 2745831)
I'm not sure that's a hill that you want to die on. The FAA pretty much turns a blind eye to commuting, and says "I don't care what you do, just be fit for duty when you report for work." If we start making a stink about this, it is very possible that the company AND FAA come back and say "Fine. You must commute in with legal rest prior to reporting for duty."
They have an issue with pilots doing any sort of work for the airline without starting the duty clock, they have stated that cleaning is work. Only JB pilots (that I’m aware of) are required to do work on their commute in. You are breaking the law if you clean and don’t start your duty time. |
Originally Posted by IrishNJ
(Post 2748169)
What are you talking about? The FAA has No issue with a commute. Every airline does it.
They have an issue with pilots doing any sort of work for the airline without starting the duty clock, they have stated that cleaning is work. Only JB pilots (that I’m aware of) are required to do work on their commute in. You are breaking the law if you clean and don’t start your duty time. |
Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand
(Post 2745930)
There is no reason to ever take a js if you are DHing.
And I guess I’d do hilltops wife to. |
Originally Posted by hyperboy
(Post 2748273)
here we go again as I beat the horse.........
JB pilots ... the pilot group that believes a company memo over their union's guidance on the matter |
Originally Posted by IrishNJ
(Post 2748521)
Not sure which horse is dead when we have quite a few juicers that can't seem to read or understand the FAA's interpretation. ... or maybe they get confused by the company's mis-guidance.
JB pilots ... the pilot group that believes a company memo over their union's guidance on the matter Do what you think is right. |
Originally Posted by IrishNJ
(Post 2748521)
Not sure which horse is dead when we have quite a few juicers that can't seem to read or understand the FAA's interpretation. ... or maybe they get confused by the company's mis-guidance.
JB pilots ... the pilot group that believes a company memo over their union's guidance on the matter You can voluntarily clean all you want. Just like you can voluntarily check FLICA. Or voluntarily pick up flying on your days off. What no air carrier can do is force you to engage in duty on behalf of the air carrier during a rest period. That's duty, not rest. The previous DRO system was duty, where you didn't know your schedule on a day off and had to log into a company computer system in order to see what you were doing on day 1 of reserve. Not sure how that slipped past everyone for years. |
Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand
(Post 2748550)
Some guys actually like and enjoy doing it. More power to them. Just have the understanding between should and must.
Do what you think is right. |
Originally Posted by IrishNJ
(Post 2748521)
Not sure which horse is dead when we have quite a few juicers that can't seem to read or understand the FAA's interpretation. ... or maybe they get confused by the company's mis-guidance.
JB pilots ... the pilot group that believes a company memo over their union's guidance on the matter |
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
(Post 2748591)
Just so we are CLEAR, the company policy says MUST.
FOM 10.3.18 Page 10-39 Captains Aircraft Cleaning: Captains are not expected to assist in light cleaning of aircraft as a core function of their duties. FOM 10.3.19 Page 10-41 First Officers Aircraft Cleaning: First Officers are not expected to assist in light cleaning of aircraft as a core function of their duties. Pass riding guide Page 24 Cleaning Expectations (thats a key word) All Pass Riding Crewmembers whether traveling for leisure, duty(in direct contradiction to the FOM) or commuting to work are expected to assist with cleaning the aircraft to speed the turn process.... Do not delay or impede the deplaning of customers when cleaning... Crewmembers failing to assist our inflight crew may be subject to suspension or loss of pass riding privileges, for up to one year. looking for the must? I can't find it. We also have a definition of how much is required and it's De-minimis, so while up for interpretation, you go ahead and clean as much as you think is required. But congratulations, you were right about less aircraft than expected this year. ex·pec·ta·tion noun a strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future. "reality had not lived up to expectations" a belief that someone will or should achieve something. Seems like we tend not to meet expectations in many aspects around here. this is not that hard |
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