E190 CA vs A320 FO
 

Need input from smart folks.

Considering going from 320 FO to E190 captain. Thoughts:

-Looks to be about a $50/hr difference.
-better reserve work rules by 2020
-might sleep at night
- no night override/ international pay
- would likely be bottom rsv guy


If I do it, do I want to be Boston or JFK based? (Commute is about the same.)
Very on the fence. I’m a family guy at heart and think this flying stuff is for the birds, (I fly min schedule) However, a normal sleep schedule is appealing.

Discuss.

Also-

Am I seat locked in the 190 once the A220 comes online? Or is the seat lock waved for the new fleet type.

Depends on how many days off you get as a line holder on the 320. Guessing if you were bottom reserve guy on the bus you don’t get that many days off as a lineholder.

Embraer makes a sweet jet. You will like the automation as well as hand flying. I fly the 175 and have a buddy at JetBlue who flew the 190 for many years. Dual HUD CAT III capable. Sweet.

Commuting to reserve would be torture. Reserve, while better than it was, still sucks. If I were a commuter I would have never upgraded.

Having flown both there is nothing impressive about the 190. It’s not a bad plane. It can be fun to fly. But the Airbus is superior in almost every way.

Correct. I estimate working an extra 2-3 days a month. (With the 13/14 days off on reserve). However, I’m sure I’ll be working all weekends and holidays on rsv.

Appreciate the comment. Nice to talk to someone who has flown both.

I would think it would depend on how badly you want the extra money. Commuting to reserve is obviously pretty rough. The 190 being short-staffed is something to consider; I’ve talked to RSV CAs that get a ton of VDA calls, but also have little ability to move days off. Were you ever a 190 FO? Big difference between 4 legs in and out of BUF and RIC vs. one leg to Aruba.

What is your main reason for wanting to upgrade? Money?

Could not disagree more. E190 is very noisy and has cramped cockpit, especially with the HUD above your head. Wearing the headset for the entire day gets old very quickly. The seats are very uncomfortable. I have yet to see an Airbus guy carry a seat cushion.

Did not know that. Thanks for the insight. The 175s I fly are only a few years old so maybe aren’t so uncomfortable. They’re definitely not noisy. But I sure second the comments above about commuting to reserve sucking.

I’ve considered the same for myself. I’m staying as a Bos 190 FO for now…

The reserve CA’s I fly tell me they’re flying the overwhelming majority of their days…most of the time breaking guarantee and apparently quite often by a lot. Few redeyes but the bottom reserve guys get the heinously early AM shows, etc.

The reserve rules are (and will be) better but, just my opinion, if the manning remains low then I’m not sure how much better it’ll be (regardless of the rules). The manning in my seat seems to be coming back up (from the previous six months) but will that translate into improved CA manning??

Oops, disregard everything I wrote...I just reread your first sentence:p

The seat is pretty dang uncomfortable...that's true. A seat cushion helps a bit. But otherwise I like the airplane...

Never flew the 190. Not sure how much extra money there will be unless I RSA/VDA a ton (I won’t)

I’ve flown both and have run the math on your dilemma, because it’s mine as well. The 190 is a loud, cramped POS. Make no mistake about it. And if as a bus FO you pick up one premium trip (or even straight pay trip) and work about the same number of days as you would on reserve making 75 hours (with 13/14 off), I put my credit on the bus around 90-95 hours. A premium trip would make that higher. Using 4 year pay (plug numbers from the last bid) 90x$151=13,741 75x$195=14,625. Bump it up to 100 hrs and you’re higher as a 320FO. But if you picked up a premium trip on days off as a 190CA you could do better. What’s it worth to fly with your favorite captain every day? Do you need TPIC to try to go to a legacy/FDX? Do you want weekends and holidays? Vacation? You prob won’t get them as the plug CA. But as a 50% FO you will get a lot.


Read the equipment freeze portion of the CBA. If it’s a new aircraft, you can bid it even within your 2 years. But it’s only a “new aircraft” for first 6 months of revenue service. So with a 1 year annual bid cycle, assuming no supplementals, that could be difficult to time.

Good question. Flying with my favorite captain is high on the list. Less red-eyes, more normal people sleeping hours.

Might be a sweet jet compared to a CRJ, ERJ, or a baron or something. But it’s a POS compared an airbus (minus fume events). And screw the HUD.

Really appreciate the time and effort you put into this response. I’ve done the math as well and come up with the same numbers.

Not planning on leaving. Excited to fly with my favorite captain. Weekends and holidays off are great, but I don’t expect to hold them off as a E190 ca if I put in.

I like the fly with my favorite captain, like there aren’t complete Ahole FOs.
I guess you could tell them to pound sand but there goes crm.


Now I went from 190 captain to bus FO. I just got tired of the same flying stuff that I did in the regional world 14 years of that was enough. 4 legs a day 4 different FAs to brief different planes 30 min turns were killing me. Not to mention the operation. It was just no longer worth it to me to miss holidays and stuff as well as be on a dying fleet.


You can still have an OK sked and I think you will make more money as a captain so it’s really a personal choice.
I was just done with it and wanted something different and jr bus captain was not appealing if you don’t live in base.

Now to be fair I haven’t really flown a bus sked yet but I definitely like bidding top 3rd. Also the new vacation system was part of it. If we must bid it I wanted more seniority. But unless you were hired here early everything is a trade off.

I liked the crj better than the 190. It’s good for passengers but not pilots.

You have to decide what is more important to you. Quite a few folks from my class finally pulled the trigger on the last bid to move to 190 Capt, the Bus FOs are all commuters and their main reason was they are simply tired flying with the moron “Captains” we have here, so they are willing to give up their QOL for that, the rest of the guys I know are all local guys, so it was a no brainer for them to upgrade.

From what I hear the 190 capts are getting used every day, constantly getting extended into days off... yes, they are breaking guarantee and getting extra $$ and tons of soft time. That’s all great if $$$ is important to you. Yes, reserve rules will get better, but reserve will also lose EPS pay and you will still be scheduling’s *****.

Each plane has pros and cons. You just have to ask yourself what is more important to you.

You can also drop 1/2 days a month via uto/pto

Definitely not weekends but weekdays can happen. It’s easier vs being a line holder since you can just do 1 at a time

Rev got better now that they can’t start you early so it’s not “that” bad but you will definitely be flying and they definitely still play games.

Did that transition myself. I never realized just how permanently fatigued I was until I got to the 190 and had a semi-normal wake/sleep schedule.

I'd give it a few bids until you could at least be a senior 190 RSV CA, or junior line holder, then you'll at least have options when you make the jump. BOS is the base to chose for 190. Much bigger 190 base than JFK.

I’d wait and bid the A220 after 5-10 deliveries. Friend who flies the E190 calls it a “giant BIC razor” with very uncomfortable seats and clunky HUD up front. I actually spoke with a Delta pilot training on the A220 and he said it is the easiest airplane he has ever flown and very comfortable up front.

Unless you simply can’t take the redeyes any more, I’d probably wait for the A220. Obviously commuting on reserve would be a big consideration. It’s all about trade offs....

E190 CA vs A320 FO
 

Love all the non JBpilots throwing their input around.

I just made the switch recently. I live in base. I have only had 1 month where I didn’t earn some sort of EPS or EMA pay. Because of that there is no way to make up the pay difference as a bus FO without picking up some major time. However the extra pay only lasts as long as we are understaffed. Also the EPS rules get gutted for RSV pilots in Jan 2020.

The guys I know who upgraded on the bottom of the list in BOS are being abused hard! Routinely breaking guarantee and being called pretty much every day. No way I would commute to rsv. Wait a few bids. The 190CA seat is moving quickly and you will probably be able to hold a line if you wait 6 months.

As much as I hated the red eyes on the bus, the 3-4 leg 12 hours days with a short 10-12 hour overnight for 4 days straight can start to get pretty brutal as well. Especially if they are all 5-6am reports.

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All correct. Especially the last sentence.

If you’re a fairly senior bus FO (or maybe you’re not) can’t you avoid redeyes? I mean you may have to make other schedule sacrifices but I absolutely hate them and would bid around them period.

That was huge for me. I despise the red eyes. Getting at least 15 days off via uto/pto was a huge difference in wanting to upgrade.

If you are above 50% in the FO bus seat you avoid red eyes.


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But there goes most of your commutable options...

I’m in jfk and get 90% or better commutable trips and no islands either.




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That’s where they all are going. My double commutable options must be later and earlier

Everyone talking about using PTO to make their schedule better: what am I missing? We only get 6 hours a month :confused: :confused: wtf can you do with that.

Also, I'm in the same situation as OP and am thankful for everyone's input as well.

Some of us have PTO banks with enough time that burning 6 hrs here and there for a year or two is doable.

Under the old PTO system I used to uto 1 day and PTO 4. I did that for 3 years.

It’s not really about the 6 hour PTO accrual or burning PTO. Let’s say you get awarded some awful 2 day trip. Round 1 swap window opens and you wanna get rid of it but you’re right at 70 hours. Some guys will PTO the trip, burning 10 hours of PTO but with intention of grabbing something better as the month rolls along. This will recoup the 10 hours of PTO you originally used while giving you a better trip or a better schedule as you called it.

Also if you want 15 days off reserve every month it is going to use a pto day 8 months out of the year I think. So you can save the other months. Just trying to give you options for bidding rsv as a captain.

wait, I don't understand this. you are saying you drop the trip and use 10 hours of PTO, but then you pick up another trip and get the 10 hours of PTO back?

Correct. If you pick up a trip over the same days/footprint you PTO’d you’ll automatically get your PTO returned to your bank. If it’s on a different day(s) then place VDA/RTF on those days you PTO’d to recoup. This only works if you can remain over 70 hours of credit without any PTO usage.