System bid
 

Massive system bid. Biggest upgrade total I’ve seen in 8+ years. Guess the CBA really did drive an increase in pilot count. We havent really grown at all this year and added 500 new hires and going to settle at over 200 upgrades.


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How did you see 200 upgrades? I only counted 109 bus and 19 190 upgrades. Am I not looking roght

For the entire year...


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Gotcha. Thanks sorry for not understanding.

Agree, this is a large upgrade bid. Maybe the company actually plans to take all 22 deliveries next year? I think that is more likely than the contract requiring that much extra staffing. But most likely a combination of contract staffing, deliveries and fixing the chronic understaffing that predates the contract, Robin and Stonehenge.

I’ve asked this before, but maybe someone has some new intel. Anyone have any idea if the Annual System Bid coming up will allow you to pick your training date month in 2020? Tough to plan your life when you could be going in for long-term training at any point in the following year. You can select your dates for CQT, why not long-term.

What are the odds a bunch of 190 MCO FO's decide they can't pass on all these 320 upgrade slots in JFK/BOS/FLL and a guy with 2 months on property can slide in to 190 MCO on this bid or in August? Pure Fantasy??

Not pure fantasy. Go for it.

A less than 4 month hire got 190mcofo a few bids back. Weird stuff happens.


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The way I understand it, yes. But I’m not really sure many people understand it until we see the thing.

I think people waiting in the August yearly bid is going to cause this upgrade cycle to go VERY junior. Especially on the 190 side.


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How long on average does it take an FO to hold MCO?

Will we see 190 Capt go under 3 years? Will be interesting...

Which aircraft? Gonna get there a lot quicker on the 190

Either a/c

190 <1 year
Airbus 3+ yrs

I believe it's by quarter, so you would be able to narrow it down to three months, but not an individual month.

Thanks for the replies on ~2 month 190 guy getting into MCO on one of the two bids this summer.

I'm looking at doing a TPA to BOS commute. Anybody have or know someone with experience with this commute? It looks like there are 4 flights a day on us out of TPA plus MCO-BOS flights if absolutely needed. The hope is to slide into MCO in under a year and drive to work.

Not that junior but I could see an 18 month - 2 year upgrade on the 190. #3300
Airbus- Still senior 10+ years. Obviously just a WAG.
Lets hear some more guesses....

He was asking how long it would take an FO to hold MCO, not upgrade... that would be crazy fast...
Ha

Sorry - I dosent reed so good. :)

Junior Airbus CA- #2300
190 CA- #3200

🤷

It was 3200 last time. I could see it going a little more senior this time. Back
To 3000-3099

Pretty sure it was just over #3000 last time, but I didn’t save the email to verify. I know it definitely didn’t hit #3200, since I’m personally in the 3100-3200 range. That’s something you remember.

3085 last time.

3085 last time.

This thing easily goes to 3350.


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Lots of people didn’t want to lose their summer vacation (or otherwise spend a month in Orlando over the summer) on the last bid. That’s the only reason I don’t think it will go quite that low. Then again, there are a lot more upgrades on this bid. I also think a lot of 320 FOs aren’t interested in 190 CA anymore. They have relatively good QOL, more days off, almost as much money, better trips, vacation. Decent lines. And day for day worked, I bet a mid seniority 320 FO could make as much as a junior reserve 190 CA (if they didn’t break guarantee) flying an 85 hour line and picking up 1-2 premium days a month, which are plentiful right now. So maybe you’re right.

320- #2500
190- #3300

If we want to stay where we are, do we need to submit a bid?

No. But make sure you don’t have a standing bid. If you did nothing in March you should be good.

What about new hire classes? Are they expecting classes through the end of the year?

The last system bid had 41 total upgrades and with the back fill there was 82 upgrades maybe it’s 81.. reguardless. My guess is there is going to be close to 160-170 upgrades by this one with the back fills and movement around the system.

I agree with everything except the earnings comparison. The break even point is around 93 hours for a 320 FO versus a reserve CA on 190. If you’re going to make the assumption that the FO picks up VDA you have to do the same for the CA. I was a 320 FO and I’m now a 190 CA and I make a decent amount more.

The FO will have at least 4 more days to VDA then the reserve junior CA. Whether they get called on those days is a different story.

Yeah that’s true. But I think both getting extra hours are unknown. You need to compare the line holder to the reserve without adding anything extra.

The assumption doesn’t have to be made about the CA. I said day for day. So if we assume the reserve 190 CA has 13 days off in a 30 day bid period, and a 320 FO has 15 days off in that same bid period on an 85 hour line, he has 1-2 days he can pick up (hopefully at premium) and still hit the crossover point on a same days worked basis. Additionally, with the FO’s seniority being better, he can get weekends/holidays off, so his chance of getting a premium trip over those times when they are more prevalent is greater. If a RSV 190CA VDAd on days off, lived local and didn’t get used much on reserve (and didn’t count those as work days), or got used every day and broke guarantee, the numbers favor the CA, but with seemingly a lot more work.

Also, using year 4 pay numbers (151/195), where the 190 upgrade was last bid, the crossover point is 97 hours credit if my math is correct.

Granted, a lot of assumptions and variables exist, but it’s so close either way. Guessing the 320 FO has a much better schedule and QOL than a real junior 190 CA, and with pay so close, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for a lot of people.

I’m just applying real life experience. I was a upper half seniority 320 FO now I’m a junior 190 CA. Everything sucks comparatively, except the money.

What if you don’t VDA/RSA or care about the extra money and just want to upgrade because you are tired of flying with idiot Captains? :p

Sounds like we’ve flown together.

Will this large system bid create E190 only newhire slots classes after the bid close?

Probably. But just as likely there may be 320 only classes.