Plenty of people are not making as much under the CBA as they were pre CBA. 190 CAs who sold back PTO for example. Or super senior bus FOs in many cases.

I guess you not answering my question IS my answer. The fact you can be a smarta$$ with people who are taking pay cuts and working more each month speaks volumes of your character. And maturity. Don't worry, you'll understand one day.

I posted in response to a person saying that RJ scope was the centerpiece of the CBA. I differ.

I bet if you found the difference between pre CBA pilot CASM and CBA amendable date CASM the difference (delta for you boners) is around 30%

That person can enjoy a huge relative seniority windfall or a transition windfall because of the CBA either way they win to the tune of about 30%

BTW “bunker” if we are being childish...I’m not a “cape air kid” But I bet they can fly circles around you in the plane and in regards to union experience

Not being childish. Just making an observation of your ignorance. Tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. I was obviously wrong to do so.

A guy with a few years flying a 402 can fly circles around a retired viper pilot in an airbus. Lol. Are you really going there? And what union experience does a Cape guy have that a 15 year JB pilot wouldn’t have?

My observation is that you cannot do addition. Another observation I have is that you do not recognize the assets that we have in the pilot group because of some type of bias.

When’s the last time said pilot flew an no kidding NDB approach, non radar, without the aid of GPS, FM, IRS, moving map, circle to land at minimums with a 30 Kt tailwind in a broke down airplane loaded up with ice and a passenger sitting next to them asking: “am I going to make my connection?”

And by the way, cape air has been union longer than jetblue

That leaves us near the bottom.

Winning!

We had an enforceable agreements when the company and ALPA executed the dispute LOA a few weeks after certification.

Nice try though!!!

Suck much narrative?

Fair points, but the “centerpiece” as you put it was not RJ scope. It was a rather large increase to to pilot CASM via pay rates, work rules, and benefits increases.

You got me with your eloquent rhetoric and indisputable facts, awe shucks

Yo legit.

30% and legit

No you swallow narrative.

Pilot CASM rose by 30%?

Dude, yo, that is just dumb!

Maybe if we flew fewer ASMs. Maybe!!

Another remedial math student. There’s plenty that could be better, but you are wrong here. We gained a lot in terms of overall compensation, QOL, VACA, etc. I’d say to the tune of about 30%

Oh. “I’d say”.

Next time say: “I guess it might be to the tune of XX”.

Vacation is only 1 week for 1/2 the pilot group .... next year.

CBA Base rates for most is equal to PTOSB plus our old base rate.

To date both of those are a net zero.zero%.

Since y’all don’t want to show your work here’s mine:

I’m middle seniority and middling longevity.

My pay rate went up from $126 to $156 per hour (20%) Plus the original 401k 13% on the increase (1-2%) plus three percent to 16% 401k contribution, brings us to 25% in cold hard cash. Not to mention the staffing and thus seniority increases for better rigs, reserve rules, vacation allotment. Add the $1/hr VEBA allotment, increases in rates for premium flying, etc. I’d say 30% is not far off.

If those same pilots want to monetize their vacation under the new system they can. And they’d come out better than you are trying to let on. Not to mention the relative seniority bump they gain via an increase in vacation allotment and reserve rules. Plus their pay rate bump and their 401k bump, and their VEBA account, and btw the scope and other QOL/job protections that are legally binding and cannot be removed via email as they could be previously

In summary, we got a 30% pay bump, but we also got pretty darn good scope, although the scope was probably not the centerpiece most voted on. But it was nice to have, kinda like the rather significant pay, retirement, vacation, work rules, and seniority increases.

Finally, the original poster can sleep well knowing that ALPA is in the house as not a bunch of blue babies from bluepilots.com who are running the show in the event of a merger. Not that it will be a deterrent from their incessant whining though

News to me that we can monetize our vacation. Oh you mean not take it and work over our vacation.

Like PTX. Like we had before.

Allocation is only 1 week for only 1/2 the pilot group ....Next year!

Legally binding? We had that within months of certification with the dispute LOA.

The contract was a D minus. Pure and simple! But was wrapped in false narratives and oversold to a group that was hired only because we scored 100% on TMAAT you turn a negative into a positive!!

Keep swimming!!!

In summary that's what YOU got. You don't speak for me or anyone with any seniority.

You're a wet dream for JB managment. You should put your app in for a project pilot ASAP. You have ACP material written all over you.

New guy comes out of the wood work bustin a bit about his contract a year after it was implemented. Troll or just random timing.

Next time will be different?

BS!!

We will be in “negotiations” for half a decade and fall behind by 35% and a FNG will say look “we got a huge 30%” raise. Then attend recurrent and learn the “facts” about fleet growth and Pilot CASM increases and new cities.

It’s to easy with this group!

Thanks for keeping it objective. This is why it’s an echo chamber on the internet. No one with any sense would waste time trying to reason with this.

I’m middle seniority i.e. that there’s about equal number of folks above me and below me.
People junior to me got more

It’s about 30% to the company’s bottom line overall by contract end.

I’m a hardcore unionist and walked around holding a sign in the freezing cold brother btw

Just decided to comment instead of lurk. Wow, what a mistake that was. The reaction you guys have to opposing opinions is like watching an infant who just had their binky stolen

I pegged you for middle to lower seniority just based on your point of view. I was right.

You're right. People below you did get more. As did you than people senior to you. Majority of the gains were taken at the expense of the more senior pilots and distributed to the lower senior pilots. There is a percentage of pilots who will make LESS under the CBA than they did under the PEA. There are pilots who will work more days under this CBA than they did under the PEA.

That's criminal.

I'm not begruding your gains, or the gains of others. I'm pi$$ed they took a majority of those gains out of the pockets and QOL of the more senior guys.

Did the CBA add to the bottom line of the company? Of course. But you're spouting off this 30% like everyone got some kind of windfall from this deal and that couldn't be further from the truth.

At all.

I never questioned your committment to the pilot group or whether you contributed to the cause during our negotiations.

I only questioned your POV, your naivety, your experience and your intelligence if you really believe the crap you're typing.

Hey, I may be wrong about you. Based on this thread, I doubt it though.

Look, if you’re goin to play tough guy at least put up some actual numbers as I have done. What was your old pay rate, what’s your new one? If you’re on the 190 how much seniority did you gain? If you switch to the bus what would your rate be, etc

I do not believe that anyone is actually making less under the current CBA fir the same days worked unless it’s a choice of category (remaining 190CA for example) and in which case they are enjoying a seniority windfall

I'm not going to be specific, but I am a senior 320 FO. Bid CKA trips. Never took vacation (could bid around days I wanted off), and I sold back PTO.

I took a 320 CA upgrade in the latest system bid and will work 3-4 more days a month and take a pay cut. Think about that one for a second. The only reason I took the upgrade is because if I had stayed an FO, the givebacks our union agreed to would have cost me another $50-60,000.

So I'm glad it worked out for you. But dont go around peacocking, strutting up and down flaunting your gains when there are significant number of pilots who are similar to me where they will work more and either not achieve a raise, or actually make less than they did before this CBA was signed.

Those who have been here > than 12 years and sold their PTO lose money until April 2020.

Those at the top of the old PTO scale will have to wait longer.

Being a math genius I thought you would have had that all figured out.

Thanks for not being specific! But feel free to castigate others from backgrounds or seniority levels you deem unworthy.

I wish we didn’t give away CKA trips btw. But if your schedule was mostly bought off in a typical month than you are in the extreme minority. And if you’re senior you can have prime vacation weeks and likely get overtime pay on top basically earning 300% on a vacation

Thanks again for showing your work. What if said individuals would work VDA over their vacations?

Plus the hourly rate bumps, plus the compounding on old retirement rate, plus new retirement contribution, plus VEBA, and seniority increases due to work rules and vacation

I’d call that PTX. Or something we had since near the beginning.

BTW, VDA will soon occur no where near the level over the past few years.

It will be replace with premium open time.

A “thing” we had before.

What is new to you is old news to most of us.

This is my last response to you

I don't look down on other seniority levels, just people like you who seem to be allergic to logical thought processes.

I realize I was in a minority, but taking CKA trips hurt everyone at some level, not just the guys who bid those specific trips. If you don't know how that works, well, I can't help you. Maybe someone else on this board will pick up the baton and try and explain things to you.

I've run the numbers. All of them. All scenarios. I lose money and work more whether I stay as an FO or upgrade. The only difference is the pay cut is less if I upgrade so off I go.

Again, I'm done with this conversation. Maybe one day you'll get it. Doubt it though.

What’s more logical than cold hard numbers? Like the ones I posted and you refuse too?

What was your old pay rate? What’s the current one? How much did you make from PTSOB? What if you work single or double time over that vacation?

I bet you’re a more senior CA now than you would have been all things equal under this CBA due to work rules vacation etc What’s that worth?

Blast from the past! Like $40/hr captains and leather jackets. 😭😭😭

Bunkered,

I understand how the loss of CKA trips is a negative seeing how I said that a couple posts ago. But thanks again for being condescending! Not my first rodeo

It’s actually more.

Our pre-CBA contribution was 3%. So it actually increased by 12%.

Edit: That is probably not fair. Since we no longer have to contribute to get the match, we are keeping 5%. Then add in the 2% (3% in 2021).