We have a pilot attrition problem
 

So say JG in a press release!

granted, the press release was to blame everyone but management…. But fairly incredible that they acknowledge we have a problem…..

So instead of increasing pay, or providing profit sharing which would improve moralle, bring back the customer experience that made this place, and provide incentives to find other efficiencies (thus saving money in the long run), we will just spend millions on new sims and instructors.

Makes sense.

Yes, we have pilot attrition, but it has actually slowed down a bit. It is not as bad as other airlines (e.g. Alaska). OSC is/was a complete mess for the last few months, again, due to management failures. This management team has never taken responsibility or accountability for anything, it’s always someone else's fault!

Of course it is never management’s fault. If they admit to making mistakes then they get fired. Shifting the blame to something else (or someone else) is an act of self-preservation for them. That’s why this Alex Battaglia stuff is great for Joanna and Robin’s self interest.

Paying the crews will be the last lever any management group pulls. NK I’d probably going to park planes before they do it. Which they won’t.

That's what Section 6 is for. And we need the new sims and instructors. Look, we do have an attrition problem. If you're 24 and have an ATP or a commercial ticket, the world is your oyster. I was heartened today to hear Hayes say on earnings that pay rates will converge across all carriers, which means everyone is going to get PAID.

“We write it, you sign it”

-wise man referencing our next contract

Absolutely disgusting call. Attrition of pilots is mentioned many times, and even cited as the main reason for restricting future growth plans. Their solution? Just plan for more attrition, plan for more training events, and accept less airline growth.

Virtually no mention whatsoever about fixing ANY of the reasons pilots leave JB. Truly disgusting "leadership". Can't manage the operation, can't manage personnel retention and morale. What would their solution be if they couldn't attract and retain executive talent? I know the answer, they know the answer, but somehow that's not really considered for the group that drives the airplanes.

They won't even take simplest, most basic step of offering profit sharing.

And the stock is falling like a boulder today.

At least Jaime Baker took a huge shot at them with the Neeleman firing reference.

But man, tough call. “Doubling down on culture.” “Relying on gateway hiring programs which have lower attrition.” All while saying pilot staffing is the limiting factor for growth. Despite golden handcuffs, I might need to get some apps together.

Money to burn to buy Spirit, but not pay enough to keep people. Nice.

For anyone that wears stripes on their shoulder and is paying attention, it was a BRUTAL call. Even if just public posturing, it was almost beyond belief how lost they are with the big picture.

this call scares me. Completely tone def call. They simply don’t “get it”. As my history here shows, I’m really not a pessimist— but this makes me lose all faith in management.

What is worse- is that call will spur more folks to leave— thus exacerbating the attrition problem. I’d think pilots here, who are not A320CA’s or who don’t live in Boston— will vote with their feet and leave. Absolutely no reason to stay unless a A320CA or living in Boston.

I don’t believe management can effectively run/manage and grow and airline.

Similar to Spirit's plan: "we're gonna hire our way out of it".

Yep, completely out of touch, tone deaf.

From the executives of the U.S.S. BJ "We have identified a massive hole in the hull of our great ship. Very large quantities of water are as we speak gushing into the hull. We have all the knowledge and tools to make a proper repair of the hull and stop the water from coming in. However, upon high level discussions with your "leadership" team, we have decided on a better course of action. We are moving the ship to shallow waters, so should too much water enter the hull, the ship will safely rest on the bottom of the ocean while keeping the officers quarters safely above the water line. We have also placed a large order with our business partners to acquire paper towels, to allow our incredible crew members the opportunity to try and soak up the water breaching the steerage levels of the ship. We are in talks with our preferred board-owned business-partners about the feasibility of pumping air into the hull of the ship to help buoyancy, and if ineffective, may allow some crew members access to limited amounts of breathable air. Some may ask, why not just fix the hole in the ship? Well that's what our legacy competitors would do, and we like to think we are different, better, more nimble, more innovative. While fixing the hole would certainly solve the problem, we believe this alternative solution designed by Wet-Ventures could lead to better long term stakeholder value. In the mean time, and while we take the time needed to study the final implementation of these interventions, which are tentatively scheduled to begin late next year, please remember to blow forcefully into the tube at the top of your life vest labeled "manual inflation". Please join other leaders in the officers quarters above the water line for cheese it's and pepsi products, but we ask you towel dry and wipe your feet dry."

We can’t be surprised though. Incompetent people running airlines into the ground is nothing new. We know who these people are. I expected nothing less. I’m hoping a Spirit acquisition will bring an entirely new management team in. If it’s the same people with an airline nearly twice the size, that’s cause for concern. Joanna is in way over her head; that’s obvious. Whatever confidence I had in Robin is gone. It’s our BOD that is ultimately the problem. One thing we can take assurance in is pilots are at an absolute premium right now. Somehow we’ll land on our feet.

Wasted potential. Year after year after year. Wasted potential. Over and over and over. Wasted potential.

The vote of no confidence was nice to see, but why is it not targeting JG, and why is there not a full page add about it in the WSJ?

Those ads cost money. And so far the union hasn’t seen a penny of the $500,000 in dues they’ll rake in when we get our LOA17 payments.

something you and I agree on. Maybe there is hope after all

I’m assuming they’re waiting to get further into Section 6 negotiations before they fire they shot. Although it I’m being honest with myself, I have slightly more faith in our Union than I do our management.

Thats the only thing that will facilitate any meaningful change around here. Shareholders being affected and the BOD feeling it.

From the NK side, I’m afraid the buying of us is to right size/staff B6. I’m afraid planes will be parked or returned and stagnation will occur for awhile. All the airframes we both have in the air today will not be in the air a month after a merger is complete. Only saving grace is future orders, but we all know they only count when the jet is on the ramp.

Pretty sure the same thing would’ve happened after and spirit/frontier merger. I never believed the new airline was gonna be the sum of the two individual airlines. Most mergers/acquisitions don’t work that way.

🤣😭

May I suggest we add another hole into the hull of the ship? It will allow all that water to go back out into the sea where it belongs.

Not afraid, SURE

I think this is too many syllables for a haiku.

NK here too. I'm pretty sure our management has checked out. Seemingly, there's no path forward for us without being purchased/merged any longer. I'm betting during covid, this became the realization from Spirit management. I've no crystal ball, but prior to covid, we were buying planes, adding routes, bases, etc. During and now after covid, there's been no commitment to invest in our infrastructure and right-size our operational side to match our growth/deliveries. So in short, i'm saying it seems management has been and is fully committed to no longer being the entity that is Spirit.

That being said, as an NK pilot, we are safe either way we go, so not too much to worry about in terms of job security. It would however be unwise and costly for JB to simply buy us out and not use the assets they are purchasing. In terms of pilot retention, I think the B6/NK merger does a lot more for pilots looking for a career stop over that of a NK/F9 merger. The B6 product is superior in terms of pay, benefits, and simply put the relationship between the pilots and management. I am speaking only anecdotally here but, a quick venture to the Frontier forum is very enlightening to how poorly management treats their pilots. It's almost as if they treat you like a bottom of the barrel regional pilot. This is not too say that B6 has a great relationship, but having friends at both places I can say with certainty that these relationships are not equal. Hell, at Spirit, it's been an incredible place to work. You call out sick, you don't hear anything, you're not called into a meeting to explain your absences like you work for a minimum wage job. I also want to be very clear, this is NOT an attack on the pilot group at Frontier, they are a fantastic bunch. Simply an anecdotal look at the potential difference in the type of work experience we can expect.

Another interesting thing I've seen/heard from some co-workers is that a F9/NK merger "makes more sense", or that we complement each other better. Honestly, I see it as six of one, half dozen of the other. While I think there's a lot of overlap on the east coast with B6/NK, Spirit ads value to both F9 and B6 some incredible growth opportunities. There's a lot in the midwest that Spirit covers that B6 and F9 don't. Truly the only thing we share in common with F9 is our contract and pricing structure. But when making an investment for a long-term strategy, that doesn't really mean much. Given the opportunity, B6 will become the 5th largest airline with a network that really competes with the legacies. If folks can come to work here and commute on their own metal, are paid comparable to that of the legacies, and be a part of some growth with opportunities to expand further, that seems like a good option.

Anyway, i'd much rather retire from B6 than F9.

You make a lot of great points, and I agree with your overall assessment.

The JB CEO on today's call did, not entirely directly or very eloquently, hint at more or less what you have said. That a JB+NK merger would make the company's scale and breadth more attractive to pilots and the inference was help attract and retain pilots.

I also agree that the plan is not to take 2 airlines combined and total 1.5 the size at the end. I don't believe they WANT to be smaller or slow growth, only that they, at least with their public rhetoric, aren't willing to say what they will need to do to make the company maximally desirable for pilots.

It's either an EPIC loss of complete situational awareness or public posturing. I haven't decided which yet.

That's just what they want you to think! But it's just crazy enough that it might work! Bonus for you, and a direct promotion to junior executive vice president of Wet-Ventures.

That call was basically the end of Jetblue being a growth airline. Adjust your career expectations accordingly.

Like BlueDriver said, this place has so much wasted potential. It’s a shame really. Could easily be the best airline in the business with competent leadership…even as an LCC.

Nailed it.

Was the vote of no confidence supposed to be taken seriously by anyone observing after the pilot group just gave a tremendous vote of confidence a month before in the form of scope concessions that give away what- 30-40 percent of their flying? Seems like the No confidence vote was a bone thrown to no voters after JB ALPA sold them a dog poop agreement to mitigate the risk of recalls longer term.

Amen! Additionally, I’d be pretty surprised if anything good comes from that vote if no confidence letter, either. But hey, we can at least look forward to that 3% pay bump. Yay! [sarcasm]

Can someone ask Elon if he wants an airline?

That call was some real BS. I think they know the exact problem but as usual are to stubborn to admit it. They always think only they have the answers and yet it’s not so. Just like the one analyst said, y’all talked about all this growth while months ago other airlines were cutting and now here you are. The arrogance of this airline management is amazing especially given their performance. When asked what they will do the answer is “double down” on culture. Uh what culture you killed it.

They think the gateway program will save them but it won’t as soon as these “diverse” pilots (as JG says)get the experience they will be gone especially if they are diverse (nothing against diverse pilots)

Irony of all ironies is to help with staffing they will slow the growth which will only lead to more attrition.

Some pilot should make a PowerPoint slide of a graveyard spiral because that’s what they are in and their answer seems to be keep pulling the yoke back.

btw happy pilots day, even if JetBlue didn’t bother to acknowledge it.

smh

Yep, why would junior pilots stay if there is mininal growth and minimal retirements. Just sit at the bottom of the list and rot. Genius plan.

Or... keep the original planned growth rate and TRY AND MAKE THIS PLACE DESIRABLE FOR PILOTS? Call me crazy, but it just might be crazy enough to work...

30-40% of our flying ? You’ll have to explain that.

JBLU @ $10.91...Isn't May " hostile take-over" month?

What would happen to JBVentures and the Expedia wanna-be place?:rolleyes:

BOD has to be tired of all this BS, we certainly are.

Can't use a stock right now to compare anything. The whole market is weak and been bleeding for months now.

However, JB dropped far more than the industry yesterday after an earnings call... Dropped more than 11% in one day. It was not a good call.