Considering staying at my regional?
10-01-2022 | 11:59 AM
#71
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 103
Likes: 6
Regional Captain here with a job offer at JetBlue, and I like the company, have for years. However, when it looks like I’m going to soon be making in the ballpark of 200k at my regional, I’m not sure JetBlue is a win from a pay standpoint.
I built a spreadsheet comparing my regionals TA to JetBlues current payscale, assumed 85 hours a month at either company and an upgrade time of five years if I go to JetBlue. Based on that I didn’t even break even in terms of total gross cumulative pay at ten years with their current payscale. Adding a hypothetical 15% pay increase got me to breaking even at 7-8 years, and adding 20% got me to breaking even at 6 years.
So if the pay is actually less (at least for a good while) at JetBlue why go? Well QOL could be one good reason, and by QOL I mostly mean days off, I have just 11 this month, the new TA if passed, would guarantee me a whopping 12. However, most current JetBlue bases mean commuting for me, which mitigates many of the QOL gains. Yellow Airbus bases could work better for me, but we don’t know when or even probably 100% sure if they are going to open up. For example what if there ends up being some stipulation in the contract keeping blue and yellow pilots from going to each others bases for a time? What if the DOJ shuts the entire merger down? (Probably not, but you never know)
With most regionals paying their captains in the ballpark if 200k now, or soon, are majors like JetBlue going to make some fairly drastic increases to their FO pay scales to keep people like me coming in the door, or are they simply going to just hire FOs, captains willing to take the pay cut and so on?
I built a spreadsheet comparing my regionals TA to JetBlues current payscale, assumed 85 hours a month at either company and an upgrade time of five years if I go to JetBlue. Based on that I didn’t even break even in terms of total gross cumulative pay at ten years with their current payscale. Adding a hypothetical 15% pay increase got me to breaking even at 7-8 years, and adding 20% got me to breaking even at 6 years.
So if the pay is actually less (at least for a good while) at JetBlue why go? Well QOL could be one good reason, and by QOL I mostly mean days off, I have just 11 this month, the new TA if passed, would guarantee me a whopping 12. However, most current JetBlue bases mean commuting for me, which mitigates many of the QOL gains. Yellow Airbus bases could work better for me, but we don’t know when or even probably 100% sure if they are going to open up. For example what if there ends up being some stipulation in the contract keeping blue and yellow pilots from going to each others bases for a time? What if the DOJ shuts the entire merger down? (Probably not, but you never know)
With most regionals paying their captains in the ballpark if 200k now, or soon, are majors like JetBlue going to make some fairly drastic increases to their FO pay scales to keep people like me coming in the door, or are they simply going to just hire FOs, captains willing to take the pay cut and so on?
More than 2 decades at your same regional with 5% seniority. Senior in the training department. Lives in base and drives to work with few nights on the road. New pay agreement means $300k with modest training department schedule. Gets whatever vacation days he wishes. Can drop shifts within the training department most of the time. Has 9 years left.
Has 2 CJO's from 2 legacies from earlier in the year pre TA watching pilots bleed away.
Considerations for him are staying at this regional which will most likely not go away. 4 different partners and not wholly owned to be Comair-ed or the like. Yet they are shrinking and these pay scales are probably not sustainable for the long term. He could likely squeeze that $300k plus 12% direct to his 401k for 3 or 4 years and skate the last few to retirement while having super seniority and all of the things that come with that.
He could go to one of the legacies and start at the bottom as a 20k hour FO with captains who have half his experience. He could take a chance on stagnating if the economy slows hiring down. He'd definitely take a pay cut as he simply doesn't have enough years to make up the disparity being senior in the training department. He is one of many that I know with this dilemma.
The black and white answers provided here only scratch the surface. There are so many variables to be considered. This is a regional that will likely weather the storm even though it may look much different in the end.
I'll say that if this guy was 5 years younger he'd almost certainly go to JB. If 10 years younger not a doubt. He's kept awake trying to decide but dont let anyone make you doubt that its not a hard decision...
My opinion
10-01-2022 | 12:53 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,629
Likes: 15
From: blueJet
I know a guy...
More than 2 decades at your same regional with 5% seniority. Senior in the training department. Lives in base and drives to work with few nights on the road. New pay agreement means $300k with modest training department schedule. Gets whatever vacation days he wishes. Can drop shifts within the training department most of the time. Has 9 years left.
Has 2 CJO's from 2 legacies from earlier in the year pre TA watching pilots bleed away.
Considerations for him are staying at this regional which will most likely not go away. 4 different partners and not wholly owned to be Comair-ed or the like. Yet they are shrinking and these pay scales are probably not sustainable for the long term. He could likely squeeze that $300k plus 12% direct to his 401k for 3 or 4 years and skate the last few to retirement while having super seniority and all of the things that come with that.
He could go to one of the legacies and start at the bottom as a 20k hour FO with captains who have half his experience. He could take a chance on stagnating if the economy slows hiring down. He'd definitely take a pay cut as he simply doesn't have enough years to make up the disparity being senior in the training department. He is one of many that I know with this dilemma.
The black and white answers provided here only scratch the surface. There are so many variables to be considered. This is a regional that will likely weather the storm even though it may look much different in the end.
I'll say that if this guy was 5 years younger he'd almost certainly go to JB. If 10 years younger not a doubt. He's kept awake trying to decide but dont let anyone make you doubt that its not a hard decision...
My opinion
More than 2 decades at your same regional with 5% seniority. Senior in the training department. Lives in base and drives to work with few nights on the road. New pay agreement means $300k with modest training department schedule. Gets whatever vacation days he wishes. Can drop shifts within the training department most of the time. Has 9 years left.
Has 2 CJO's from 2 legacies from earlier in the year pre TA watching pilots bleed away.
Considerations for him are staying at this regional which will most likely not go away. 4 different partners and not wholly owned to be Comair-ed or the like. Yet they are shrinking and these pay scales are probably not sustainable for the long term. He could likely squeeze that $300k plus 12% direct to his 401k for 3 or 4 years and skate the last few to retirement while having super seniority and all of the things that come with that.
He could go to one of the legacies and start at the bottom as a 20k hour FO with captains who have half his experience. He could take a chance on stagnating if the economy slows hiring down. He'd definitely take a pay cut as he simply doesn't have enough years to make up the disparity being senior in the training department. He is one of many that I know with this dilemma.
The black and white answers provided here only scratch the surface. There are so many variables to be considered. This is a regional that will likely weather the storm even though it may look much different in the end.
I'll say that if this guy was 5 years younger he'd almost certainly go to JB. If 10 years younger not a doubt. He's kept awake trying to decide but dont let anyone make you doubt that its not a hard decision...
My opinion
10-02-2022 | 06:11 AM
#73
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 972
Likes: 1
Regional Captain here with a job offer at JetBlue, and I like the company, have for years. However, when it looks like I’m going to soon be making in the ballpark of 200k at my regional, I’m not sure JetBlue is a win from a pay standpoint.
I built a spreadsheet comparing my regionals TA to JetBlues current payscale, assumed 85 hours a month at either company and an upgrade time of five years if I go to JetBlue. Based on that I didn’t even break even in terms of total gross cumulative pay at ten years with their current payscale. Adding a hypothetical 15% pay increase got me to breaking even at 7-8 years, and adding 20% got me to breaking even at 6 years.
So if the pay is actually less (at least for a good while) at JetBlue why go? Well QOL could be one good reason, and by QOL I mostly mean days off, I have just 11 this month, the new TA if passed, would guarantee me a whopping 12. However, most current JetBlue bases mean commuting for me, which mitigates many of the QOL gains. Yellow Airbus bases could work better for me, but we don’t know when or even probably 100% sure if they are going to open up. For example what if there ends up being some stipulation in the contract keeping blue and yellow pilots from going to each others bases for a time? What if the DOJ shuts the entire merger down? (Probably not, but you never know)
With most regionals paying their captains in the ballpark if 200k now, or soon, are majors like JetBlue going to make some fairly drastic increases to their FO pay scales to keep people like me coming in the door, or are they simply going to just hire FOs, captains willing to take the pay cut and so on?
I built a spreadsheet comparing my regionals TA to JetBlues current payscale, assumed 85 hours a month at either company and an upgrade time of five years if I go to JetBlue. Based on that I didn’t even break even in terms of total gross cumulative pay at ten years with their current payscale. Adding a hypothetical 15% pay increase got me to breaking even at 7-8 years, and adding 20% got me to breaking even at 6 years.
So if the pay is actually less (at least for a good while) at JetBlue why go? Well QOL could be one good reason, and by QOL I mostly mean days off, I have just 11 this month, the new TA if passed, would guarantee me a whopping 12. However, most current JetBlue bases mean commuting for me, which mitigates many of the QOL gains. Yellow Airbus bases could work better for me, but we don’t know when or even probably 100% sure if they are going to open up. For example what if there ends up being some stipulation in the contract keeping blue and yellow pilots from going to each others bases for a time? What if the DOJ shuts the entire merger down? (Probably not, but you never know)
With most regionals paying their captains in the ballpark if 200k now, or soon, are majors like JetBlue going to make some fairly drastic increases to their FO pay scales to keep people like me coming in the door, or are they simply going to just hire FOs, captains willing to take the pay cut and so on?
LTD?
Regionals - 2 years of LTD coverage.
Majors - to mandatory retirement age or longer!
10-02-2022 | 02:28 PM
#74
Gets Everyday Off
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1
From: Fully Retired
Needing disability insurance is a lot higher probability than needing life insurance. (If you consider life important to your family, you should definitely have disability, in all fields, not just pilots.)
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