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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirrusly (Post 3579493)

Expects to be profitable in 2023. Great time to vote down profit sharing…brilliant! Btw I’ve spoke to only no voters so far so I think it will be tighter than expected

Based on the numbers given, what kind of check would you expect to see in 2023 if there were profit sharing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3579248)

Entertaining post, no doubt. And you guys haven't had profit sharing in the past, and your "peer" ULCC airlines don't have it.

JB pilots had it before, but management took it unilaterally before the first CBA was achieved, because they could. There were some really big checks some years, and of course it's not uncommon for the captains in our peer set to get $30-60k PLUS checks. And it is part of EVERY SINGLE one of our peers contracts. When you guys shirts finally turn blue from holding your breath, it will be part of every single one of your peers contracts as well. And the time to get profit sharing in the contract is when the airline isn't very profitable. When the airline is highly profitable, the cost of the plan is much higher, and they will resist giving it to the pilots only that much more.

We all get our hourly rate, our paychecks 24 times a year. Our peers get, on average, very large bonus checks, often enough to buy a new car or pay college tuition, in cash. We literally hold the keys to the single operating certificate, there is NO reason we should even consider an AIP without peer standard profit sharing. And that line in the sand needs to be drawn by the NC. Period. No, "well let's see if the pilots will vote for a deal without it" crap. We stay at the table, operating two separate airlines, and in a labor dispute if need be, until we have a COMPLETE CBA with all the standard provisions of a top-five passenger airline, and some of our joint best-CBA provisions that each airline brings to the JCBA process from our existing CBAs. Until all those requirements are met, the answer is no...

yup and here we go. We already have this what profit idea among our pilots now we can add spirit. Sure sure we will get it in the JCBA yeah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Softpayman (Post 3579554)

Based on the numbers given, what kind of check would you expect to see in 2023 if there were profit sharing?

0 for now which begs the question why is the company such a hard no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotpayne (Post 3579562)

0 for now which begs the question why is the company such a hard no?

They are forecasting a modest yearly profit in 2023. So....were there profit sharing the number would be > 0.

Why are they are hard "no?" Who knows....maybe with lagging profitability they don't want to lag the others even further?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Softpayman (Post 3579554)

Based on the numbers given, what kind of check would you expect to see in 2023 if there were profit sharing?

Good lord you’re shortsighted.

Ladies and gentleman: exhibit A of why we can’t have nice things

Quote:

Originally Posted by Softpayman (Post 3579568)

….Why are they are hard "no?" Who knows....?

They were not a hard “no” but they easily convinced the NC they were. And since the NC was ready to give up on profit sharing, and then the MEC was so quick to give up on profit sharing in order to avoid a labor dispute over the holidays, and since the pilot group has apparently already given up on profit sharing “this time”…

Profit sharing isn’t going to happen in the JCBA. In a year this vote will be history. The company learns from history. The union does not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Softpayman (Post 3579554)

Based on the numbers given, what kind of check would you expect to see in 2023 if there were profit sharing?

The company can see and conceive of things beyond 12 months, where pilots can't see past their next paycheck.

If you listened carefully to the earnings call, margins are expected to ramp throughout the year, and by end of THIS year margins should be at or near 2019 (pre-covid) levels, with expected further improvement beyond 2023. Their forecasts are "conservative" and they expect debt paydown post merger close to be rapid (can't remember the exact term they used, but it was similar to rapid).

So, we were played like morons. And, when the next negotiations come around it is likely the company will have healthy margins, and the gullible pilots will say we "have to wait for a time the company isn't profitable to get profit sharing".

Fools.

Now during JCBA, come hell, high water or high profits, the NC needs to just say NO, and the company can operate two separate airlines, in a labor dispute if need be, until a COMPLETE CBA, with all the standard provisions of a top five passenger airline, as well as the best of JB/NK existing CBAs, is offered by JB.

And those forecasts include the impact of the pilot contract extension.

Played for fools.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Softpayman (Post 3579554)

Based on the numbers given, what kind of check would you expect to see in 2023 if there were profit sharing?

Fix the formula, fix the problem. Don’t punt on first and goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluediver (Post 3579629)

Fix the formula, fix the problem. Don’t punt on first and goal.

My guess is next year, we'd average about $3500/pilot. Of course this is just 2023.