Post-V1 abort after bird-strike destroyed Kalitta 747F
01-02-2009, 09:37 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: C-172 FO
Posts: 468
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
Regardless of what the FARs say ... lets look at real world. No crew is going to identify that there is a problem and initiate the proper action in one second. Addtitionally, although newer aircraft are tested with worn tires and brakes and Part 25 says "of normal pilot ability", in many aircraft still flying today, a highly skilled test pilot was used with a new jet, new tires, and new brakes.
-Fatty
-Fatty
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
Regardless of what the FARs say ... lets look at real world. -Fatty
01-03-2009, 05:01 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: I was acquired, Not Hired
Posts: 1,784
Comparing a C-130 to a B747 classic or comparing take off-landing numbers for a ACMI civilian carrier versus what SAC uses is like asking the Easter Bunny to deliver money to little kids for leaving their molars under their pillow.
Every civilian airline uses an FAA approved TOLD procedure.What is used on the 757 at Northwest is not what they use at Delta or United....same plane, same P&W motors, same definitions (accel-stop/balanced field/obstacle clearance, 1/2/3/4 segments of climb considerations) different procedures. In addition, some companies have adopted "boutique" V1 procedures: slippery V1, windshear V1, etc. No one company is the same.
I don't know of any after-V1 aborts of a large transport category aircraft that did not result in damage to the aircraft. Specifically, the Kalitta example is one and their are numerous others with windows popping open that resulted in after-V1 aborts and melted fuse plugs and blown tires.
In the 747 classic, even aborting before V1 is a trick. I had a buddy of mine abort in Bogota at 120 kts (V1 at SKBO is usually in the 160 knot range) and still keep it on the pavement. I don't remember if he melted any tires.
On the other hand, and germaine to the Kalitta example, a single engine loss in the classic is not the end of the world. As expertly mentioned by Whale in an earlier post, the plane will fly and fly well unless you're in an extreme takeoff scenario (Bogota, Mex City, Quito, etc.)
A valid point mentioned by another author, if you're in a DASH7 departing 31 Left at JFK, you could abort at V1, stop, and do two more takeoff runs in the amount of runway remaining. However, this is the exception to the rule.
Back to my cave,
FF
Every civilian airline uses an FAA approved TOLD procedure.What is used on the 757 at Northwest is not what they use at Delta or United....same plane, same P&W motors, same definitions (accel-stop/balanced field/obstacle clearance, 1/2/3/4 segments of climb considerations) different procedures. In addition, some companies have adopted "boutique" V1 procedures: slippery V1, windshear V1, etc. No one company is the same.
I don't know of any after-V1 aborts of a large transport category aircraft that did not result in damage to the aircraft. Specifically, the Kalitta example is one and their are numerous others with windows popping open that resulted in after-V1 aborts and melted fuse plugs and blown tires.
In the 747 classic, even aborting before V1 is a trick. I had a buddy of mine abort in Bogota at 120 kts (V1 at SKBO is usually in the 160 knot range) and still keep it on the pavement. I don't remember if he melted any tires.
On the other hand, and germaine to the Kalitta example, a single engine loss in the classic is not the end of the world. As expertly mentioned by Whale in an earlier post, the plane will fly and fly well unless you're in an extreme takeoff scenario (Bogota, Mex City, Quito, etc.)
A valid point mentioned by another author, if you're in a DASH7 departing 31 Left at JFK, you could abort at V1, stop, and do two more takeoff runs in the amount of runway remaining. However, this is the exception to the rule.
Back to my cave,
FF
