Police agencies step up recruiting efforts
07-24-2008, 05:22 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
Average police officer salary where Skyhigh lives is 43K. That's according to Salary Search | Indeed.com
I submit it's not hard to "average" that kind of money if you work as a professional pilot for five years. In fact, if Skyhigh hadn't left Horizon, he'd be making over twice what police officers "average" in his home town. Check 12th year Capts pay on the DH4. That's according to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...rizon_air.html
It's easy to say the grass is greener somewhere else. It's much harder to prove it....
I submit it's not hard to "average" that kind of money if you work as a professional pilot for five years. In fact, if Skyhigh hadn't left Horizon, he'd be making over twice what police officers "average" in his home town. Check 12th year Capts pay on the DH4. That's according to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...rizon_air.html
It's easy to say the grass is greener somewhere else. It's much harder to prove it....
07-24-2008, 07:17 PM
#22
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Ifs
Originally Posted by de727ups
Average police officer salary where Skyhigh lives is 43K. That's according to Salary Search | Indeed.com
I submit it's not hard to "average" that kind of money if you work as a professional pilot for five years. In fact, if Skyhigh hadn't left Horizon, he'd be making over twice what police officers "average" in his home town. Check 12th year Capts pay on the DH4. That's according to Airline Pilot Central - Horizon Air | Regional
It's easy to say the grass is greener somewhere else. It's much harder to prove it....
I submit it's not hard to "average" that kind of money if you work as a professional pilot for five years. In fact, if Skyhigh hadn't left Horizon, he'd be making over twice what police officers "average" in his home town. Check 12th year Capts pay on the DH4. That's according to Airline Pilot Central - Horizon Air | Regional
It's easy to say the grass is greener somewhere else. It's much harder to prove it....
And lastly pilots are more than eager to throw in overtime, per diem, and the quarter they found in the company parking lot as income in an attempt to justify a lessor profession. However fail to recognize commuter costs, lost days on the road trying to get home, total hours away from home, crash pads and the fact that they really do not have many benefits and no retirement at all.
Oh yea and when they like to quote other professions they merely post the average salary and overlook the rest. In the state of Washington cops can retire at age 53. Firefighters after 20 years. Not bad. Most pilots would be considered lucky to have reached the left seat at a major by then.
Firefighters work 9 days (24 hour shifts) a month... period. Their pay, demand and respect is on the rise.
After ten years at Horizon Air I might be earning as much as a cop who hadn't advanced at all however as a cop would also be half way to a full retirement. Another thing to remember is that police careers usually do not require years of prior experience to reach a starting wage. In addition anyone who were to start at Horizon Air today would have a hard time reaching the left seat after ten years.
I could go on but I doubt you would keep on reading. If you were to really climb into the details there is no comparison. A simpler way is to compare lifestyles firefighters have boats new homes and take many long vacations. Pilot work over their vacations so that they can make the rent.
Skyhigh
Last edited by SkyHigh; 07-24-2008 at 07:31 PM.
07-24-2008, 07:44 PM
#23
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Washington State Patrol
Starting Pay $38,676 While in training !!
Annual pay $46,704 to 66,440 !! And they get pay raises with the cost of living.
PLUS education incentive, Shift differential pay
Tuition reimbursement.
Retirement at age 55 or 25 years of service.
And they have an aviation department.
No furloughs!! No layoffs !!! No mergers !!! No Bankrupcies !!!
Even a legacy guy would have to think twice about that.
SkyHigh
Annual pay $46,704 to 66,440 !! And they get pay raises with the cost of living.
PLUS education incentive, Shift differential pay
Tuition reimbursement.
Retirement at age 55 or 25 years of service.
And they have an aviation department.
No furloughs!! No layoffs !!! No mergers !!! No Bankrupcies !!!
Even a legacy guy would have to think twice about that.
SkyHigh
07-24-2008, 08:20 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Even a legacy guy would have to think twice about that. SkyHigh
What do you think would happen if the fire departments started advertising like crazy that they are running out of firemen. Then, high school kids would be allowed on the line. All of them, with almost no training. All they would need is a pulse and to walk upright.
You are comparing non competitive jobs with competitive jobs.
Firemen can not be hired at 6.25/hour. First they would be too proud to serve their communities full time for peanuts, second they would hate the job after a short while. Why? Because John Doe could decide to offer to do the same job for nothing but noodles. People would scream "Hey! Look, it's getting cheaper". The fire departments could at some point no longer afford to ride to the fire. Firemen would use their own cars instead. Eventually all collapses. Do you see the firemen as the crux? (Being a pilot was once a good paying job. What or who changed that?)
But because they have pride and respect for themselves they cannot afford to work for less. What and who introduced pilots to be a never ending cheap resource? Pilots did. Self inflicted gunshot to the head. Someone somewhere sometime decided that a pilot is no longer a special person with special skills by selling himself cheap. Others followed. Now, we look at losers and winners. Why not move on to the next gig, sell out the police. Sell out the fire department. Sell out being a nurse, lawyer or dentist?
07-24-2008, 08:52 PM
#25
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Huh ??
Originally Posted by Careercfi
Comparing being a pilot with being a fire fighter now?
What do you think would happen if the fire departments started advertising like crazy that they are running out of firemen. Then, high school kids would be allowed on the line. All of them, with almost no training. All they would need is a pulse and to walk upright.
You are comparing non competitive jobs with competitive jobs.
Firemen can not be hired at 6.25/hour. First they would be too proud to serve their communities full time for peanuts, second they would hate the job after a short while. Why? Because John Doe could decide to offer to do the same job for nothing but noodles. People would scream "Hey! Look, it's getting cheaper". The fire departments could at some point no longer afford to ride to the fire. Firemen would use their own cars instead. Eventually all collapses. Do you see the firemen as the crux? (Being a pilot was once a good paying job. What or who changed that?)
But because they have pride and respect for themselves they cannot afford to work for less. What and who introduced pilots to be a never ending cheap resource? Pilots did. Self inflicted gunshot to the head. Someone somewhere sometime decided that a pilot is no longer a special person with special skills by selling himself cheap. Others followed. Now, we look at losers and winners. Why not move on to the next gig, sell out the police. Sell out the fire department. Sell out being a nurse, lawyer or dentist?
What do you think would happen if the fire departments started advertising like crazy that they are running out of firemen. Then, high school kids would be allowed on the line. All of them, with almost no training. All they would need is a pulse and to walk upright.
You are comparing non competitive jobs with competitive jobs.
Firemen can not be hired at 6.25/hour. First they would be too proud to serve their communities full time for peanuts, second they would hate the job after a short while. Why? Because John Doe could decide to offer to do the same job for nothing but noodles. People would scream "Hey! Look, it's getting cheaper". The fire departments could at some point no longer afford to ride to the fire. Firemen would use their own cars instead. Eventually all collapses. Do you see the firemen as the crux? (Being a pilot was once a good paying job. What or who changed that?)
But because they have pride and respect for themselves they cannot afford to work for less. What and who introduced pilots to be a never ending cheap resource? Pilots did. Self inflicted gunshot to the head. Someone somewhere sometime decided that a pilot is no longer a special person with special skills by selling himself cheap. Others followed. Now, we look at losers and winners. Why not move on to the next gig, sell out the police. Sell out the fire department. Sell out being a nurse, lawyer or dentist?
Are you supporting my position now? I don't get it.
SkyHigh
07-25-2008, 03:40 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 112
huhuhu?
I'm just sarcastic Sky. I don't support your position that the "industry" failed anyone. In fact I am almost certain the firefighting industry could be brought down by people willing to do a job for next to nothing. Everytime a pilot accepts a job flying 50 passengers around for 1700/month he contributes to the misery. They still accept, in fact, the kids run towards it.
See - poor Tony Macarony (was it?) asked for his account to be deleted, I received a infraction for calling him a name. Some people just don't mix well. People do what their heart desires. Some are MD's, some are nurses, some are happy driving trucks. Some, like me, have run their own show for years and are willing and able to give it a shot. What it all cooks down to, is that "leaving the career" is kind of a sad place to be in a aviation forum. I don't want to bash the aviation industry. I don't want to be sad. So, that TM can have his comeback I am leaving [upstairs]. There is positive in this forum, and thats where I'd like to be.
If I ever leave the industry - I will walk away from it and never ever look back. You will not find me sitting outside telling people how bad they are off for having made a choice. The grass is always greener on the other side, and I think you miss flying for a living.
See - poor Tony Macarony (was it?) asked for his account to be deleted, I received a infraction for calling him a name. Some people just don't mix well. People do what their heart desires. Some are MD's, some are nurses, some are happy driving trucks. Some, like me, have run their own show for years and are willing and able to give it a shot. What it all cooks down to, is that "leaving the career" is kind of a sad place to be in a aviation forum. I don't want to bash the aviation industry. I don't want to be sad. So, that TM can have his comeback I am leaving [upstairs]. There is positive in this forum, and thats where I'd like to be.
If I ever leave the industry - I will walk away from it and never ever look back. You will not find me sitting outside telling people how bad they are off for having made a choice. The grass is always greener on the other side, and I think you miss flying for a living.
Last edited by Careercfi; 07-25-2008 at 03:51 PM.
07-25-2008, 08:28 PM
#27
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
I miss Flying
Originally Posted by Careercfi
I'm just sarcastic Sky. I don't support your position that the "industry" failed anyone. In fact I am almost certain the firefighting industry could be brought down by people willing to do a job for next to nothing. Everytime a pilot accepts a job flying 50 passengers around for 1700/month he contributes to the misery. They still accept, in fact, the kids run towards it.
See - poor Tony Macarony (was it?) asked for his account to be deleted, I received a infraction for calling him a name. Some people just don't mix well. People do what their heart desires. Some are MD's, some are nurses, some are happy driving trucks. Some, like me, have run their own show for years and are willing and able to give it a shot. What it all cooks down to, is that "leaving the career" is kind of a sad place to be in a aviation forum. I don't want to bash the aviation industry. I don't want to be sad. So, that TM can have his comeback I am leaving [upstairs]. There is positive in this forum, and thats where I'd like to be.
If I ever leave the industry - I will walk away from it and never ever look back. You will not find me sitting outside telling people how bad they are off for having made a choice. The grass is always greener on the other side, and I think you miss flying for a living.
See - poor Tony Macarony (was it?) asked for his account to be deleted, I received a infraction for calling him a name. Some people just don't mix well. People do what their heart desires. Some are MD's, some are nurses, some are happy driving trucks. Some, like me, have run their own show for years and are willing and able to give it a shot. What it all cooks down to, is that "leaving the career" is kind of a sad place to be in a aviation forum. I don't want to bash the aviation industry. I don't want to be sad. So, that TM can have his comeback I am leaving [upstairs]. There is positive in this forum, and thats where I'd like to be.
If I ever leave the industry - I will walk away from it and never ever look back. You will not find me sitting outside telling people how bad they are off for having made a choice. The grass is always greener on the other side, and I think you miss flying for a living.
Thanks for your input.
Skyhigh
07-26-2008, 04:24 PM
#28
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Sky aren't you doing some C150 flying? Maybe you should get your CFI current and train some students around there. I think if I were in your shoes I would still like to fly as a hobby. Many people feel low-level commercial flying is the most fun. Several retired airline pilots told me they have more fun flying a Cub or a Decathlon giving lessons in it than they ever did flying passengers for big bucks. Sorry for the thread drift.
07-26-2008, 07:30 PM
#29
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Thanks !!
Originally Posted by Cubdriver
Sky aren't you doing some C150 flying? Maybe you should get your CFI current and train some students around there. I think if I were in your shoes I would still like to fly as a hobby. Many people feel low-level commercial flying is the most fun. Several retired airline pilots told me they have more fun flying a Cub or a Decathlon giving lessons in it than they ever did flying passengers for big bucks. Sorry for the thread drift.
It is difficult to drive all the way down there for an hour lesson then drive all the way back only to have another student pop up 4 hours later.
I still think about it though. In the mean time I still like flying the 150M.
Skyhigh
07-26-2008, 07:40 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: F/O
Posts: 156
But because they have pride and respect for themselves they cannot afford to work for less. What and who introduced pilots to be a never ending cheap resource? Pilots did. Self inflicted gunshot to the head. Someone somewhere sometime decided that a pilot is no longer a special person with special skills by selling himself cheap. Others followed. Now, we look at losers and winners. Why not move on to the next gig, sell out the police. Sell out the fire department. Sell out being a nurse, lawyer or dentist?
This is pretty funny to me. You have obviously never seen the pay rates in the Southeast. Fire Departments and Police Departments will never pay "well" (eye of the beholder) because it's a government job. Lawyers and dentists are paid well because most set their own prices. New pilots, on the other hand, are anxious to get their foot in the door and will work for peanuts because there is a prospect of getting paid well in the long run. It's just like any other career. You start at the bottom and work your way up.
As for a career in law enforcement, I spent 8 years at a large metro-Atlanta police department before leaving becoming an airline pilot. One thing is for sure, it is a calling...at first. Just like new pilots, you enter the career all wide eyed and bushy tailed barely making enough to pay the rent. Why? Because it's what you want to do. I always think it's funny to hear new F/O's complaining about how much they get paid. Didn't they know the pay rate before they applied? Didn't they make the necessary financial calculations before they got hired?
The first 5 years of law enforcement are great fun. Then the newness wears off and you realize it's not so fun anymore, it's a job. Worse yet, you deal with the worst of society day in and day out which makes you very jaded about people in general. You have to go to work each day and remind yourself that somebody may try to kill you. So after 8 years of working all three shifts, being a fatality crash investigator, a Field Training Officer and a Senior Patrolman, I was making about $45K a year. If anybody decides to get into policing, just remember it's not all high speed chases and shootouts. The benefits are good and the camaraderie is unparalleled but don't think it's a cake walk. Police work is 95% monotony and paperwork. The other 5% is frenzied and chaotic.
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