Not now. Not ever.
08-13-2008, 09:13 AM
#41
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Source
Originally Posted by de727ups
"UPS has between 12 and 20,000 applications on file for an average of 100 jobs per year. The odds are near 146 to one and that is after surviving flight school, college, initial jobs, ect...."
Source?
Have to ask cause I've seen Sky make an "educated guess", for effect, and play it off as factual.
Source?
Have to ask cause I've seen Sky make an "educated guess", for effect, and play it off as factual.
SkyHigh
08-13-2008, 09:15 AM
#42
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
The Statisitcs
[QUOTE=USMCFLYR;443743]
The numbers suggest otherwise. Aviation is like the NFL. Some will make it to their dream jobs however most will not.
SkyHigh
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
I believe when compared to other professions the amount of risk, investment and sacrifise is not in congress with the return that is currently being offered under the average situation given the average pilot.
The guy who is looking for a stable profession, and not interested in a vision quest, aviation is a poor choice. The cost of education and training is prohibitive. The odds of making it to someplace good are exceedingly long. The future of the industry is not all that bright.
It is a sweepingly negative comment but I think it is valid. Every town needs a cop. Most every plumber will get a job. Other professions have their obstacles and setbacks but noting like aviation.
Skyhigh
Then accept the unrealistic sweepingly POSITIVE comments that are made by others who HAVE succeeded in this industry that you don't feel is worth it. My beef with your statement isn't that you point out the negatives and the pitfalls of this profession; but rather that you make sweeping and generalistic negative comments (like this whole indutry and profession "not worthy") yet attack anyone who happens to have succeeded and give a positive view of the past, present, and future.
USMCFLYR
The guy who is looking for a stable profession, and not interested in a vision quest, aviation is a poor choice. The cost of education and training is prohibitive. The odds of making it to someplace good are exceedingly long. The future of the industry is not all that bright.
It is a sweepingly negative comment but I think it is valid. Every town needs a cop. Most every plumber will get a job. Other professions have their obstacles and setbacks but noting like aviation.
Skyhigh
Then accept the unrealistic sweepingly POSITIVE comments that are made by others who HAVE succeeded in this industry that you don't feel is worth it. My beef with your statement isn't that you point out the negatives and the pitfalls of this profession; but rather that you make sweeping and generalistic negative comments (like this whole indutry and profession "not worthy") yet attack anyone who happens to have succeeded and give a positive view of the past, present, and future.
USMCFLYR
The numbers suggest otherwise. Aviation is like the NFL. Some will make it to their dream jobs however most will not.
SkyHigh
08-13-2008, 09:25 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
I got this from another thread.
"Phil Donohue (sp?) heads up our HR program. I spoke with him late last year about the process we use. Here's basically what he said, "It's now a point system and 5 points is max anyone can get. A lot of applicants have four points, you know, missing one thing or another. The apps with 5 points have our minimum flight qualifications, LORs, a college degree, PIC time and jet experience. Those with all five points equal about 400+. The computer will then randomly select applicants for us to interview."
Of course, it's third hand info from an aviation message board. But I'd personally weigh it higher than a Skyhigh educated guess...
"Phil Donohue (sp?) heads up our HR program. I spoke with him late last year about the process we use. Here's basically what he said, "It's now a point system and 5 points is max anyone can get. A lot of applicants have four points, you know, missing one thing or another. The apps with 5 points have our minimum flight qualifications, LORs, a college degree, PIC time and jet experience. Those with all five points equal about 400+. The computer will then randomly select applicants for us to interview."
Of course, it's third hand info from an aviation message board. But I'd personally weigh it higher than a Skyhigh educated guess...
08-13-2008, 09:25 AM
#44
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
That United Captain was an excellent judge of your potential. Perhaps he was able to see aspects of your personality that you were blind to and make a call that was correct so far into the future.
Nice story, the cheapest education of all is learning from the failures of others.
Nice story, the cheapest education of all is learning from the failures of others.
08-13-2008, 09:41 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
[quote=SkyHigh;443761]
The numbers suggest otherwise. Aviation is like the NFL. Some will make it to their dream jobs however most will not.
SkyHigh
Sorry man - same old SkyHigh.
You keep making your wide ranging statements in the negative way and believing what you believe and talk down to anyone who has an opposing view. At least no one on the forum makes such sweeping statements in a positive way. They all acknowledge the hard times and sacrifice it takes to make it in the industry for a majority of people. You should give people the respect for their views that you want from them.
Oh...and I don't get the numbers statement and NFL reference when responding to my post. I'm not talking numbers - I'm talking about you statements.
USMCFLYR
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
The numbers suggest otherwise. Aviation is like the NFL. Some will make it to their dream jobs however most will not.
SkyHigh
You keep making your wide ranging statements in the negative way and believing what you believe and talk down to anyone who has an opposing view. At least no one on the forum makes such sweeping statements in a positive way. They all acknowledge the hard times and sacrifice it takes to make it in the industry for a majority of people. You should give people the respect for their views that you want from them.
Oh...and I don't get the numbers statement and NFL reference when responding to my post. I'm not talking numbers - I'm talking about you statements.
USMCFLYR
08-13-2008, 10:27 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,383
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Learflyer -
We have talked privately and you know that I have yet to enter this field of professional aviation. Haven't even sent in my first resume yet; but it is a field that I have been interested in for more than 20 years and although worried about the current state of affairs in the industry I look forward to wading in with my eyes wide open - both from posts about the pitfalls from SkyHigh and others and posts from people that have made it. As you have stated or seen from my other posts - I also basically have no back-up plan. Flying of some sort or another is all I've ever wanted to do and I have no interest in anything else - nor education or skills either. It is not a great situation to tell the truth. Oh - I have those mid-level management skills that any military officer comes out with and a safety background to boot that might be of some use somewhere; but those office/desk jobs would make me just as bitter and disillusioned as SkyHigh.
No...I haven't been to the point yet where I have been furloughed. I chose a path initially that provided continual employment, travel, excitement, and times that I wished I were at home nice and snuggled into my bed instead of living in a cave and eating cold MREs for longer than I care to remember. I've paid my dues in getting to this point where I **MIGHT** get to be interviewed and told that I'm not what they are looking for either, but I'm willing to give it a shot because I do find this prideful profession worth it and I just love flying plain and simple.
USMCFLYR
We have talked privately and you know that I have yet to enter this field of professional aviation. Haven't even sent in my first resume yet; but it is a field that I have been interested in for more than 20 years and although worried about the current state of affairs in the industry I look forward to wading in with my eyes wide open - both from posts about the pitfalls from SkyHigh and others and posts from people that have made it. As you have stated or seen from my other posts - I also basically have no back-up plan. Flying of some sort or another is all I've ever wanted to do and I have no interest in anything else - nor education or skills either. It is not a great situation to tell the truth. Oh - I have those mid-level management skills that any military officer comes out with and a safety background to boot that might be of some use somewhere; but those office/desk jobs would make me just as bitter and disillusioned as SkyHigh.
No...I haven't been to the point yet where I have been furloughed. I chose a path initially that provided continual employment, travel, excitement, and times that I wished I were at home nice and snuggled into my bed instead of living in a cave and eating cold MREs for longer than I care to remember. I've paid my dues in getting to this point where I **MIGHT** get to be interviewed and told that I'm not what they are looking for either, but I'm willing to give it a shot because I do find this prideful profession worth it and I just love flying plain and simple.
USMCFLYR
I wholeheartedly (sp) apologize. I agree, you did pay your dues.
08-13-2008, 10:35 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,383
Originally Posted by de727ups
"...get back into it every day, as do I. I've actually been offered jobs, but none of them equal the pay and QOL I currently receive."
I thought you were a sim instructor? To me, that's still in the biz. We used to have guys line guys that got involved in training so they could be home every day. Not a bad gig.
I thought you were a sim instructor? To me, that's still in the biz. We used to have guys line guys that got involved in training so they could be home every day. Not a bad gig.
10-11-2008, 12:59 AM
#48
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 1
bwahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha nice KTM BTW
Hello, my name is Jesus,
I think you and Tony are THE BOMB!! I been laughing constantly.
With over 10000hrs of my own, but a father who was a Dr and absent and my Bro in law the biggest douchebag at SWA with a 1500 #.That puts him in the era of 3 cities and he luckily turned down a sideways job at Braniff. Everyone thought he was nuts. Anyway,I wouldnt ride in a car with him he scared me so bad. I got to sit in the sim with him too once doing the KSNA stuff, watching him not listen to the IP asking him to please fly it by hand. I finally yelled at him "Jose(not his real name, but I think he is related to Jose B)! HAND FLY THE GODDAM THING!" So he was no help at all.
I had no roadmap either. Buy I did have to work. And thats what I did, over 6500 hours teaching the best kids Lufthansa and other carriers produced. Anyway, I find it realy humorous how the ugly brown uniforms et el are now on the top of the heap. THE FRIEGHT WILL FLY! ****tyhawk taught me that. I own my own company now and have specialized in a very smart aircraft after doing air ambulance work which was really intangiblly rewarding.
That part of Maslows Hierarchy of needs that i began my career with 100% and now am down to the 10% of the "intangibles".
Every pilot wants to think hes the best, it goes with the territory. I know I am, Im just too much like EKG(Earnest K Gann) and I suck at politics and im a duck out of water on the ground. I had a name for the roadmap trustfund kids i went to school with. "Skippy's". Book smart and common sense stupid.
Yup im bitter, but im also better. But not nessisarily smarter..obviously.
NICE fricking Bike BTW!! I had the racing EXC 520 when I was working uo at the "Ditch" for awile. Yours looks like that new street legal one,,can't remember the name. For lack of a cush gear KTM would never officially approve long highway trips. Now its ok.. my luck. I JUST GOT BACK FROM 4 MONTHS IN INDIA, AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE PERFECT BIKE! Oh well I digess.. Keep up the fine cynicism!!! Tony too!
"I have only two things in this world, my word, and my balls, and I dont break them ,for no one" heh
Well have a swell time yall
I especially like that new rule that recommends no critisism of the new guys till after ten or so posts.in order to encourage more participation.Thats seems really nice to me!
Regards,
Jesus H.
I think you and Tony are THE BOMB!! I been laughing constantly.
With over 10000hrs of my own, but a father who was a Dr and absent and my Bro in law the biggest douchebag at SWA with a 1500 #.That puts him in the era of 3 cities and he luckily turned down a sideways job at Braniff. Everyone thought he was nuts. Anyway,I wouldnt ride in a car with him he scared me so bad. I got to sit in the sim with him too once doing the KSNA stuff, watching him not listen to the IP asking him to please fly it by hand. I finally yelled at him "Jose(not his real name, but I think he is related to Jose B)! HAND FLY THE GODDAM THING!" So he was no help at all.
I had no roadmap either. Buy I did have to work. And thats what I did, over 6500 hours teaching the best kids Lufthansa and other carriers produced. Anyway, I find it realy humorous how the ugly brown uniforms et el are now on the top of the heap. THE FRIEGHT WILL FLY! ****tyhawk taught me that. I own my own company now and have specialized in a very smart aircraft after doing air ambulance work which was really intangiblly rewarding.
That part of Maslows Hierarchy of needs that i began my career with 100% and now am down to the 10% of the "intangibles".
Every pilot wants to think hes the best, it goes with the territory. I know I am, Im just too much like EKG(Earnest K Gann) and I suck at politics and im a duck out of water on the ground. I had a name for the roadmap trustfund kids i went to school with. "Skippy's". Book smart and common sense stupid.
Yup im bitter, but im also better. But not nessisarily smarter..obviously.
NICE fricking Bike BTW!! I had the racing EXC 520 when I was working uo at the "Ditch" for awile. Yours looks like that new street legal one,,can't remember the name. For lack of a cush gear KTM would never officially approve long highway trips. Now its ok.. my luck. I JUST GOT BACK FROM 4 MONTHS IN INDIA, AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE PERFECT BIKE! Oh well I digess.. Keep up the fine cynicism!!! Tony too!
"I have only two things in this world, my word, and my balls, and I dont break them ,for no one" heh
Well have a swell time yall
I especially like that new rule that recommends no critisism of the new guys till after ten or so posts.in order to encourage more participation.Thats seems really nice to me!
Regards,
Jesus H.
Last edited by Swampfox; 10-11-2008 at 01:02 AM. Reason: spelling
10-11-2008, 01:13 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
Thread closed. User banned.
