Too many pilots
08-25-2008 | 02:56 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
Likes: 0
From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
"Ex-fighter guys have been known to have a difficult time adjusting to the mundane typing pool that is airline flying."
Now that's a good one. What do you back that up with? I sit down with a new F/O and I can't tell if he was from Amflight or an F-18. Mundane typing pool. Really.....
"I merely present the facts without the rose colored glasses"
The problem with your facts is you make half of it up to support your arguments. People see this and that's why they call you "bitter and negative".
Sky, it's great you got out of the biz. As awful as you make it out to be, you'd have been one unhappy camper if you stayed in it. I'm really glad you found something better.
Now that's a good one. What do you back that up with? I sit down with a new F/O and I can't tell if he was from Amflight or an F-18. Mundane typing pool. Really.....
"I merely present the facts without the rose colored glasses"
The problem with your facts is you make half of it up to support your arguments. People see this and that's why they call you "bitter and negative".
Sky, it's great you got out of the biz. As awful as you make it out to be, you'd have been one unhappy camper if you stayed in it. I'm really glad you found something better.
08-25-2008 | 04:06 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 0
"it seemed that the agreed thought was that we needed more pilots. AOPA seems to advertise this notion often."
The only people saying we need more pilots are those who can profit from that. AOPA, ERAU, and the big flight academies make money off the back of the misinformed They sell this to you much like truck driving schools sell an easy career to anyone willing to write the check.
People should research the career before they get in. There are no guarantees and it's a different sort of business. Only those who are willing to make some sacrifices will be successful as a pilot. And success is a moving target, with a moving definition, that is different for each person. To each his own.
One thing about the downswings in the cycle. They have a tendency to weed out some of the folks who got into it for the wrong reasons and are better off in another career.
I think this thread is more suitable for the "leaving the career" forum.
The only people saying we need more pilots are those who can profit from that. AOPA, ERAU, and the big flight academies make money off the back of the misinformed They sell this to you much like truck driving schools sell an easy career to anyone willing to write the check.
People should research the career before they get in. There are no guarantees and it's a different sort of business. Only those who are willing to make some sacrifices will be successful as a pilot. And success is a moving target, with a moving definition, that is different for each person. To each his own.
One thing about the downswings in the cycle. They have a tendency to weed out some of the folks who got into it for the wrong reasons and are better off in another career.
I think this thread is more suitable for the "leaving the career" forum.
08-25-2008 | 04:09 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
From: Hotel
I understand your position. I was a regional pilot too. Automation shouldn't be used as a crutch but it is. Some pilots should not have been permitted to fly the line but they do. Regional flying is a demanding job and pilots should be treated with respect but they are not. The investment in college, flight experience and flight training demands a good wage but does not get one.
If this was a perfect world we all would have the flying job of our dreams and would be treated well by our employers.
Compensation is more than what your wages are. Pilots get most of their compensation in the form of satisfaction. Accountants, plumbers and firefighters get paid in cash and benefits.
Accounting is a growing profession that is climbing to the to of the business ladder, but is dull. Few would show up for the job if they thought they would make pilot wages. Why would an airline pay a dime more than they had to for pilots? They are not in short supply. It takes a lot to get them to leave the profession and their skills are easy to come by.
People claim that I am "bitter" and "negative" but I am not. I merely present the facts without the rose colored glasses. If you leave the profession then you just blew a fortune on a year and a half of playing airline pilot. You are the accountant. Maybe you could calculate the profit and loss of your airline venture? Don't forget to include the opportunity cost of what you could have earned as an accountant over the last three or more years.
SkyHigh
If this was a perfect world we all would have the flying job of our dreams and would be treated well by our employers.
Compensation is more than what your wages are. Pilots get most of their compensation in the form of satisfaction. Accountants, plumbers and firefighters get paid in cash and benefits.
Accounting is a growing profession that is climbing to the to of the business ladder, but is dull. Few would show up for the job if they thought they would make pilot wages. Why would an airline pay a dime more than they had to for pilots? They are not in short supply. It takes a lot to get them to leave the profession and their skills are easy to come by.
People claim that I am "bitter" and "negative" but I am not. I merely present the facts without the rose colored glasses. If you leave the profession then you just blew a fortune on a year and a half of playing airline pilot. You are the accountant. Maybe you could calculate the profit and loss of your airline venture? Don't forget to include the opportunity cost of what you could have earned as an accountant over the last three or more years.
SkyHigh
Furthermore, my knowledge and skills and judgment regarding aviation has increased several fold. Sure, my skills won't translate to barnstorming and aerobatic type flying, but regarding commercial aviation as a whole, I am largely more knowledgeable and marketable than this time two years ago.
If I went back to an accounting desk next week and took up right where I left off (I could get my job back any second), I'd sit down with a big freaking smile on my face at what a HELL OF A RIDE it was to pursue aviation while I did.
No balance in my my bank account can pay for that.
Perhaps that is why the "white shirted zombies" as you so aptly put it, stick around and endure the negatives. After reading through these boards a lot, I associate your name with negativity and it sounds like I am not alone on that. You remind me of Eeyore the donkey. Why do you waste your time on these boards just spreading doom and gloom? If you don't want to be an airline pilot, why are you on APC all the time?
Last edited by bryris; 08-25-2008 at 04:48 PM.
08-25-2008 | 06:52 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: 737 right
[QUOTE=bryris;449323]
I heard that SWA has 40,000 resumes in hand!!!! 40,000??!!?? If that is true, that is 8x the current pilot workforce. Are there that many people out there with 1,500+ turbine PIC?
QUOTE]
I flew with an interview Captain a few weeks ago who said they do in fact have about 40,000 on file. He did go on to say that they only had about 2500 that they considered "Serious" applicants.
I heard that SWA has 40,000 resumes in hand!!!! 40,000??!!?? If that is true, that is 8x the current pilot workforce. Are there that many people out there with 1,500+ turbine PIC?
QUOTE]
I flew with an interview Captain a few weeks ago who said they do in fact have about 40,000 on file. He did go on to say that they only had about 2500 that they considered "Serious" applicants.
08-25-2008 | 07:19 PM
#25
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Why am I here?
.
Perhaps that is why the "white shirted zombies" as you so aptly put it, stick around and endure the negatives. After reading through these boards a lot, I associate your name with negativity and it sounds like I am not alone on that. You remind me of Eeyore the donkey. Why do you waste your time on these boards just spreading doom and gloom? If you don't want to be an airline pilot, why are you on APC all the time?
Perhaps that is why the "white shirted zombies" as you so aptly put it, stick around and endure the negatives. After reading through these boards a lot, I associate your name with negativity and it sounds like I am not alone on that. You remind me of Eeyore the donkey. Why do you waste your time on these boards just spreading doom and gloom? If you don't want to be an airline pilot, why are you on APC all the time?
Writing on these pages is about sharing ideas and experiences with an association of my peers. This is really all I have left of nearly 20 years of effort as a professional pilot.
It is natural that I am the boggy man here since I do not join in with the crowd. Some say that I am negative. I say that I merely offer a different view than most others.
You are the one who mentioned the 40,000 applicants at SWA. If SWA is going to hire 400 this year that mean that if you meet their minimums and if you have the three SWA captains who are willing to stand up for you that the odds of getting hired are 100 to one.
Some might call that fact as negative. I call it reality.
Skyhigh
08-25-2008 | 07:38 PM
#26
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
bryris
Bryris,
Let me ask you this. When you began your journey into aviation did visions of a quick transition to SWA dance in your head? If you had known that financially this venture would most likely result in a net loss would you still have jumped in?
Starting an aviation career is a huge decision. The cost of flight training and investment in personal sacrifices are huge. Few enter without an expectation of significant financial gain and a better future.
To come to the realization now that you are but one of many many tens of thousands of pilots who are ardently competing over less than 2000 new hire spots per year at one of the better airlines should be disheartening.
How is it that you could consider my views as negative?
Skyhigh
I am still waiting to find out how many applications UPS has on file. If SWA has 40,000 imagine what UPS has. I bet the paper alone consumed a forest the size of Manhattan.
Let me ask you this. When you began your journey into aviation did visions of a quick transition to SWA dance in your head? If you had known that financially this venture would most likely result in a net loss would you still have jumped in?
Starting an aviation career is a huge decision. The cost of flight training and investment in personal sacrifices are huge. Few enter without an expectation of significant financial gain and a better future.
To come to the realization now that you are but one of many many tens of thousands of pilots who are ardently competing over less than 2000 new hire spots per year at one of the better airlines should be disheartening.
How is it that you could consider my views as negative?
Skyhigh
I am still waiting to find out how many applications UPS has on file. If SWA has 40,000 imagine what UPS has. I bet the paper alone consumed a forest the size of Manhattan.
08-25-2008 | 07:53 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
Likes: 0
From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
"I am still waiting to find out how many applications UPS has on file"
Sky, just make something up in lieu of. That's much more your style....
But that said, the SWA lady said 2500 of the 40,000 are serious. A UPS guy said that 400 plus have 5 of 5 points.
"There's only so many sacrifices you can make before you become the wierd guy in his 50's whose never home, and doesn't have a family"
Well, then at some point, you hit the curve, and you left. No problem with that and more power to ya. You keep saying you want back in the biz and are looking for a way. It's your call. To each his own. I just think bashing the career is a bit over the top for one looking for a way back into it. Don't you think???
Sky, just make something up in lieu of. That's much more your style....
But that said, the SWA lady said 2500 of the 40,000 are serious. A UPS guy said that 400 plus have 5 of 5 points.
"There's only so many sacrifices you can make before you become the wierd guy in his 50's whose never home, and doesn't have a family"
Well, then at some point, you hit the curve, and you left. No problem with that and more power to ya. You keep saying you want back in the biz and are looking for a way. It's your call. To each his own. I just think bashing the career is a bit over the top for one looking for a way back into it. Don't you think???
08-25-2008 | 08:12 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
Likes: 0
From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
"After reading through these boards a lot, I associate your name with negativity and it sounds like I am not alone on that. You remind me of Eeyore the donkey. Why do you waste your time on these boards just spreading doom and gloom?"
I've been reading Skyhigh since day one. He is here cause he wants to be here. He'll say anything to get you to keep reading him. In fact, he'll say anything to get you to argue with him, cause that means you're still reading him.....
"Writing on these pages is about sharing ideas and experiences with an association of my peers"
Not my peer. Skyhigh walked away from being an airline pilot when National went down in Nov 2002. He chose to quit the career at that point to get to get involved with rentals and building homes. That's when he ceased to be my peer. Now, when the day comes that I need advice on rental property in Central Washington, I'll consider him a peer and actively seek out his advice. Untill then...
I've been reading Skyhigh since day one. He is here cause he wants to be here. He'll say anything to get you to keep reading him. In fact, he'll say anything to get you to argue with him, cause that means you're still reading him.....
"Writing on these pages is about sharing ideas and experiences with an association of my peers"
Not my peer. Skyhigh walked away from being an airline pilot when National went down in Nov 2002. He chose to quit the career at that point to get to get involved with rentals and building homes. That's when he ceased to be my peer. Now, when the day comes that I need advice on rental property in Central Washington, I'll consider him a peer and actively seek out his advice. Untill then...
08-25-2008 | 08:32 PM
#30
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Please
DE727UPS,
You expect accuracy in me. I would appreciate accuracy as well. I did not quit. I was laid off (9-11) during a time when there were few options and ways to return to aviation.
Out of a necessity of feeding my family I was forced to turn to something else. Had the floor not been ripped out from under my feet I still would be flying today. To my surprise I happily discovered that the outside world was much easier than aviation. As such I have tightened my personal expectations for jobs in aviation that I will take.
Please stop falsely characterizing me and my choices.
Another thing; 40,000 people took the time to fill out what I am sure is a lengthy application. SWA may only consider 2500 of them to be valid applicants but to each one who wasted a day to fill that thing out they are a contender.
The same goes with UPS. As far as I know both companies only keep applications that meet their significant minimums. If that is the case then there are 40,000 qualified, experienced and eager applicants for a tiny scant of jobs. UPS may only have 400 Super Qualified applicants but dont tell the remaining 39,600 mortals.
Even when I was flying for a living you and I were not peers. Because I saw aviation as a path to a better life and to you it is your whole life.
You are still my best buddy though.
SkyHigh
You expect accuracy in me. I would appreciate accuracy as well. I did not quit. I was laid off (9-11) during a time when there were few options and ways to return to aviation.
Out of a necessity of feeding my family I was forced to turn to something else. Had the floor not been ripped out from under my feet I still would be flying today. To my surprise I happily discovered that the outside world was much easier than aviation. As such I have tightened my personal expectations for jobs in aviation that I will take.
Please stop falsely characterizing me and my choices.
Another thing; 40,000 people took the time to fill out what I am sure is a lengthy application. SWA may only consider 2500 of them to be valid applicants but to each one who wasted a day to fill that thing out they are a contender.
The same goes with UPS. As far as I know both companies only keep applications that meet their significant minimums. If that is the case then there are 40,000 qualified, experienced and eager applicants for a tiny scant of jobs. UPS may only have 400 Super Qualified applicants but dont tell the remaining 39,600 mortals.
Even when I was flying for a living you and I were not peers. Because I saw aviation as a path to a better life and to you it is your whole life.
You are still my best buddy though.
SkyHigh
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
B727DRVR
Cargo
14
08-22-2008 02:23 PM
