Too many pilots
08-25-2008 | 08:53 AM
#11
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
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From: Corporate Pilot
Accounting
"A minimum of five years accounting experience."
Dang, five years? You could be a regional Capt in five years some places. Corp/Frac/135 Capt, too. Wonder what first year pay is for that job? Guess you'd get to be home every night but I'd rather work half the month, and be gone. Besides, you have to move to Maryland. Very high cost of living.
Anyhow, to each his own....
Dang, five years? You could be a regional Capt in five years some places. Corp/Frac/135 Capt, too. Wonder what first year pay is for that job? Guess you'd get to be home every night but I'd rather work half the month, and be gone. Besides, you have to move to Maryland. Very high cost of living.
Anyhow, to each his own....
Status and wages for Accountants are on the rise. They are expected to be the attorneys and "go to" guys of the future. Currently it takes five difficult years of college plus passing a national exam to become a CPA.
A graduates who finished last spring in accounting have a much better employment outlook than new commercial pilots do.
I don not have the facts however I an sure that it is possible or common for CPA's to earn regional captain wages within a short time of graduating.
Skyhigh
08-25-2008 | 09:05 AM
#12
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Accountant
"Employment of accountants and auditors is expected to grow faster than average for all occupations through the year 2014. An increase in the number of businesses, changing financial laws and regulations, and increased scrutiny of company finances will drive growth. In addition to openings resulting from growth, the need to replace accountants and auditors who retire or transfer to other occupations will produce numerous job openings in this large occupation."
08-25-2008 | 09:18 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 13,843
Likes: 1
From: FAA 'Flight Check'
Back in '88 I was going to have lunch with my mother in one of the state capitol buildings - she worked in the state social security office. As I walked into the office I noticed a lot of young guys and gals sitting around the cafeteria tables twiddling pencils with their feet propped up and generally looking very bored. I had just come from the Murrah building and speaking to many of the federal law enforcement agencies that had offices there about future employment and opportunities. I was busy showing my mother a broucher on the DEA when she asked me why I couldn't be satisifed with a "regular" job. I looked outside her office again and asked her who those people were. She said they were mostly accountants who were there to audit the office. I said "because I can't imagine doing that for the rest of my life" to which she just shook her head.
Like many people say - to each his own.
USMCFLYR
Like many people say - to each his own.
USMCFLYR
08-25-2008 | 09:42 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
Likes: 0
From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Sky, you love to come to this pilots site and tell people not be pilots, and why they should run away, and why it will never be what it was, and why they are stupid to be here in the first place.
What you're missing is...is not everyone wants to be an accountant. Some people want to be pilots, and are willing to put up with what you were not willing to put up with, to make it happen.
What you're missing is...is not everyone wants to be an accountant. Some people want to be pilots, and are willing to put up with what you were not willing to put up with, to make it happen.
08-25-2008 | 09:53 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
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From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
"it seemed that the agreed thought was that we needed more pilots. AOPA seems to advertise this notion often."
The only people saying we need more pilots are those who can profit from that. AOPA, ERAU, and the big flight academies make money off the back of the misinformed They sell this to you much like truck driving schools sell an easy career to anyone willing to write the check.
People should research the career before they get in. There are no guarantees and it's a different sort of business. Only those who are willing to make some sacrifices will be successful as a pilot. And success is a moving target, with a moving definition, that is different for each person. To each his own.
One thing about the downswings in the cycle. They have a tendency to weed out some of the folks who got into it for the wrong reasons and are better off in another career.
I think this thread is more suitable for the "leaving the career" forum.
The only people saying we need more pilots are those who can profit from that. AOPA, ERAU, and the big flight academies make money off the back of the misinformed They sell this to you much like truck driving schools sell an easy career to anyone willing to write the check.
People should research the career before they get in. There are no guarantees and it's a different sort of business. Only those who are willing to make some sacrifices will be successful as a pilot. And success is a moving target, with a moving definition, that is different for each person. To each his own.
One thing about the downswings in the cycle. They have a tendency to weed out some of the folks who got into it for the wrong reasons and are better off in another career.
I think this thread is more suitable for the "leaving the career" forum.
08-25-2008 | 11:53 AM
#16
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Want to be a pilot
Sky, you love to come to this pilots site and tell people not be pilots, and why they should run away, and why it will never be what it was, and why they are stupid to be here in the first place.
What you're missing is...is not everyone wants to be an accountant. Some people want to be pilots, and are willing to put up with what you were not willing to put up with, to make it happen.
What you're missing is...is not everyone wants to be an accountant. Some people want to be pilots, and are willing to put up with what you were not willing to put up with, to make it happen.
Eventually, and against my will, I grew up. My needs changed and I began to understand why people do jobs like accounting and that the world is in perfect balance. It takes a lot to become an accountant but the rewards are in congress with the investment made.
It is fun to think of glass cockpits at three in the morning but the profession has changed. Aviation has gotten easier and as a result pay and working conditions are inarguably getting worse. Today pilots have to make a huge sacrifice in hopes of getting a job one day that pays less than a mailman.
In the end what I really wanted was to be a father and husband. In addition it was important to me to be able to live my life with my family and to be able to provide them a better life than what an aviation career offers.
No one wants to be an accountant. No one wants to be a plumber, roofer, dentist or garbage man. They do it because the compensation and lifestyle better suits there needs and the needs of their families.
I want to be a pilot but there are few plumb jobs left and they demand an investment and sacrifice that is too much for the return.
SkyHigh
08-25-2008 | 11:55 AM
#17
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Return on Investment
Back in '88 I was going to have lunch with my mother in one of the state capitol buildings - she worked in the state social security office. As I walked into the office I noticed a lot of young guys and gals sitting around the cafeteria tables twiddling pencils with their feet propped up and generally looking very bored. I had just come from the Murrah building and speaking to many of the federal law enforcement agencies that had offices there about future employment and opportunities. I was busy showing my mother a broucher on the DEA when she asked me why I couldn't be satisifed with a "regular" job. I looked outside her office again and asked her who those people were. She said they were mostly accountants who were there to audit the office. I said "because I can't imagine doing that for the rest of my life" to which she just shook her head.
Like many people say - to each his own.
USMCFLYR
Like many people say - to each his own.
USMCFLYR
I saw a sea of white shirted zombies who were willing to sell their birthdays to the company for a song. I just cant imagine doing that for the rest of my life.
Wait till it is your turn to sit for hours motionless and with arms folded waiting for the next of thousands of identical ILS approaches. Ex-fighter guys have been known to have a difficult time adjusting to the mundane typing pool that is airline flying.
Skyhigh
08-25-2008 | 01:01 PM
#18
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
From: Hotel
Conveniently, I do have a BS in Accounting. Perhaps that is why you posted that?
Accounting sucks, by and large. The only reward in my opinion is after opening a business and running it yourself. I could probably roll with that.
Flying sucks too, at least the business/flying combo. However, some "need" to do it. Its more of a disease than a gift, IMHO.
In my opinion, SkyHigh, and I say this with the utmost respect, you are more bitter than most I have seen. The flight director is a tool. It is not King. In an environment where people's lives are at stake, flying in very congested areas under extreme standards (perhaps a fed in the jump seat), its a way to assist the pilot during times of, say, a descending turn at a specific airspeed to join a localizer or a course, for example. Most of us could do it by scan and hand, but it would take more brain power to monitor 4 different things. In a Cessna, at 100 knots, its not a huge deal. However, in a jet, at 300 knots or greater with your job and license continually on the line, its nice to lean on the computers a tad to free up some brain power to look at the bigger picture, rather than just physically drive the bus.
Its like a physicist. Is the modern physicist/scientist any less professional because he isn't having to carry the ones anymore?
I often hand fly the airplane. I just like it. However, it only takes one button to make the FD go away too, then its just stick and rudder.
Speaking of holds. I get what you are saying. However, anyone worth their salt in a professional cockpit can enter a hold without the computer. However, its nice sometimes to have the computer do it so you can free up some attention to contact company, determine a bug out fuel number, figure a diversion plan if necessary, etc. Should the computer fail, we are still expected to make it go right. A call to ATC stating we are unable to hold over the fix due to FMC failure wouldn't work.
Aviation is as safe as it has EVER been. The purpose of the automation isn't to dumb things down to a level where a 300 hour pilot can fly it. The purpose is to increase efficiency and safety. If you think otherwise, I think your thoughts are rooted in some sort of failure on your own part.
Just my $.02.
Accounting sucks, by and large. The only reward in my opinion is after opening a business and running it yourself. I could probably roll with that.
Flying sucks too, at least the business/flying combo. However, some "need" to do it. Its more of a disease than a gift, IMHO.
In my opinion, SkyHigh, and I say this with the utmost respect, you are more bitter than most I have seen. The flight director is a tool. It is not King. In an environment where people's lives are at stake, flying in very congested areas under extreme standards (perhaps a fed in the jump seat), its a way to assist the pilot during times of, say, a descending turn at a specific airspeed to join a localizer or a course, for example. Most of us could do it by scan and hand, but it would take more brain power to monitor 4 different things. In a Cessna, at 100 knots, its not a huge deal. However, in a jet, at 300 knots or greater with your job and license continually on the line, its nice to lean on the computers a tad to free up some brain power to look at the bigger picture, rather than just physically drive the bus.
Its like a physicist. Is the modern physicist/scientist any less professional because he isn't having to carry the ones anymore?
I often hand fly the airplane. I just like it. However, it only takes one button to make the FD go away too, then its just stick and rudder.
Speaking of holds. I get what you are saying. However, anyone worth their salt in a professional cockpit can enter a hold without the computer. However, its nice sometimes to have the computer do it so you can free up some attention to contact company, determine a bug out fuel number, figure a diversion plan if necessary, etc. Should the computer fail, we are still expected to make it go right. A call to ATC stating we are unable to hold over the fix due to FMC failure wouldn't work.
Aviation is as safe as it has EVER been. The purpose of the automation isn't to dumb things down to a level where a 300 hour pilot can fly it. The purpose is to increase efficiency and safety. If you think otherwise, I think your thoughts are rooted in some sort of failure on your own part.
Just my $.02.
08-25-2008 | 01:40 PM
#20
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Whatever
Conveniently, I do have a BS in Accounting. Perhaps that is why you posted that?
Accounting sucks, by and large. The only reward in my opinion is after opening a business and running it yourself. I could probably roll with that.
Flying sucks too, at least the business/flying combo. However, some "need" to do it. Its more of a disease than a gift, IMHO.
In my opinion, SkyHigh, and I say this with the utmost respect, you are more bitter than most I have seen. The flight director is a tool. It is not King. In an environment where people's lives are at stake, flying in very congested areas under extreme standards (perhaps a fed in the jump seat), its a way to assist the pilot during times of, say, a descending turn at a specific airspeed to join a localizer or a course, for example. Most of us could do it by scan and hand, but it would take more brain power to monitor 4 different things. In a Cessna, at 100 knots, its not a huge deal. However, in a jet, at 300 knots or greater with your job and license continually on the line, its nice to lean on the computers a tad to free up some brain power to look at the bigger picture, rather than just physically drive the bus.
Its like a physicist. Is the modern physicist/scientist any less professional because he isn't having to carry the ones anymore?
I often hand fly the airplane. I just like it. However, it only takes one button to make the FD go away too, then its just stick and rudder.
Speaking of holds. I get what you are saying. However, anyone worth their salt in a professional cockpit can enter a hold without the computer. However, its nice sometimes to have the computer do it so you can free up some attention to contact company, determine a bug out fuel number, figure a diversion plan if necessary, etc. Should the computer fail, we are still expected to make it go right. A call to ATC stating we are unable to hold over the fix due to FMC failure wouldn't work.
Aviation is as safe as it has EVER been. The purpose of the automation isn't to dumb things down to a level where a 300 hour pilot can fly it. The purpose is to increase efficiency and safety. If you think otherwise, I think your thoughts are rooted in some sort of failure on your own part.
Just my $.02.
Accounting sucks, by and large. The only reward in my opinion is after opening a business and running it yourself. I could probably roll with that.
Flying sucks too, at least the business/flying combo. However, some "need" to do it. Its more of a disease than a gift, IMHO.
In my opinion, SkyHigh, and I say this with the utmost respect, you are more bitter than most I have seen. The flight director is a tool. It is not King. In an environment where people's lives are at stake, flying in very congested areas under extreme standards (perhaps a fed in the jump seat), its a way to assist the pilot during times of, say, a descending turn at a specific airspeed to join a localizer or a course, for example. Most of us could do it by scan and hand, but it would take more brain power to monitor 4 different things. In a Cessna, at 100 knots, its not a huge deal. However, in a jet, at 300 knots or greater with your job and license continually on the line, its nice to lean on the computers a tad to free up some brain power to look at the bigger picture, rather than just physically drive the bus.
Its like a physicist. Is the modern physicist/scientist any less professional because he isn't having to carry the ones anymore?
I often hand fly the airplane. I just like it. However, it only takes one button to make the FD go away too, then its just stick and rudder.
Speaking of holds. I get what you are saying. However, anyone worth their salt in a professional cockpit can enter a hold without the computer. However, its nice sometimes to have the computer do it so you can free up some attention to contact company, determine a bug out fuel number, figure a diversion plan if necessary, etc. Should the computer fail, we are still expected to make it go right. A call to ATC stating we are unable to hold over the fix due to FMC failure wouldn't work.
Aviation is as safe as it has EVER been. The purpose of the automation isn't to dumb things down to a level where a 300 hour pilot can fly it. The purpose is to increase efficiency and safety. If you think otherwise, I think your thoughts are rooted in some sort of failure on your own part.
Just my $.02.
If this was a perfect world we all would have the flying job of our dreams and would be treated well by our employers.
Compensation is more than what your wages are. Pilots get most of their compensation in the form of satisfaction. Accountants, plumbers and firefighters get paid in cash and benefits.
Accounting is a growing profession that is climbing to the to of the business ladder, but is dull. Few would show up for the job if they thought they would make pilot wages. Why would an airline pay a dime more than they had to for pilots? They are not in short supply. It takes a lot to get them to leave the profession and their skills are easy to come by.
People claim that I am "bitter" and "negative" but I am not. I merely present the facts without the rose colored glasses. If you leave the profession then you just blew a fortune on a year and a half of playing airline pilot. You are the accountant. Maybe you could calculate the profit and loss of your airline venture? Don't forget to include the opportunity cost of what you could have earned as an accountant over the last three or more years.
SkyHigh
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