de727ups

"The pilots are spring loaded to react to situations in a pre-determined manner and if they run off the script will contact others for further direction"

Sky, you know it's really not any different than following the "engine failure" checklist in your Cessna 150. Pilots are trained to react to a non-normal situation using a rote procedure because it's safer. It's human nature that trying to "think" your way out of a non-normal is a bad idea because folks often have a hard time "thinking" properly in the heat of battle.

It's one of those things we've learned since the DC3 days.

SkyHigh

I do not think that it is a bad thing. Well established procedures are a huge advancement in airline safety. Standardization and Crew Resource Management have also been significant improvements as well. Some seem well suited for the job and appear to be fulfilled by striving to acquire a deep understanding of every corner of the manual and to be able to rapidly preform the procedures to to an exact degree. They take comfort in living well within the lines and in measuring themselves by standards placed by others. Every question is answerable by a passage from the manual and there is nothing wrong with that either.

My point is that there is little that separates those qualities and abilities from what a computer does. I can see a time in the near future when a computer at ATC passes an instruction directly to the on board flight computer who then carries out the action without any input from the crew. Emergency procedures, take off, landing and most other functions could or already are being done by computer. The pilots are slowly being removed from the stage and well be relegated to passive observers who will be relegated to listening to empty frequencies and making periodic PA's to the passengers.

To me when I fly my 150 I am the captain, chief pilot, dispatcher, maintenance control, check airmen and passenger. I am in command of every element of the flight and have complete authority to make whatever decisions I wish in the completion of a safe and satisfying flight. My hands are on the controls from taxi out to back into the tie down. My mind is the fight computer and the main tool for resolving in flight problems and decisions. I can not say that I make all the best decisions all the time however I enjoy the satisfaction that comes from the creative process. My background is in being a bush pilot. Under those conditions pilots are valued for their reasoning ability, self reliance and are completely in charge of the flight.

I think that the airlines are very safe and appropriate for the environment that they are in but that the job is threatened by automation.


Skyhigh

Planespotta

Most trains are not automated. Check out the next CSX/Union Pacific/Amtrak/etc. train that passes through your town.



That plane's got windows up front.



This one, too.



. . . and, so does this one. I don't think pilots are going anywhere for a long time. Even the X-48, a plane that is planned to enter service 30 years down the line, has space for a crew up front.

I have talked to many pilots, and one question I have asked most of them is if they think that automation has taken any of the fun out of flying (thinking that the answers could be used in threads just like this). All of them, including a 19,000+ hour CAL captain, deny that this is the case; they love flying and understand why automation is necessary. I don't get what the big deal about this is. It's been around since the 60s.

For a bunch of automated, boring, stare-at-a-wall, button-pushing bus driving, I'm surprised you'd take a job at Alaska if you were offered it tomorrow, SkyHigh.

SkyHigh

Their will still be people sitting in the front of airliners in the future. I am not arguing that. My point is that through automation their roll has been and will continue to be reduced to the point where they are just sitting there and watching the show while ground inputs and computers fly the plane. Most of the time that is what it is like already. Plenty of people will be satisfied with that since they do not know any better.

Modern pilots love technology and thrill at watching it do a better job at flying the plane than they could. However as a result airlines will not need to pay for experience anymore since the computer is what makes for a sucessful fight. The people up front will still be referred to as pilots but are really coming closer to being IT technicians.

I have no problem with being reduced to a button pusher however I need to have a life and to be able to make a reasonable living as well. So long as automation continues its advances I can only see pilot losing more value and falling further into the hands of management.

SkyHigh

Planespotta

Yup, and surgeons are glorified butchers. Where does this denegration stop?

They've automated all they can by now. Pilots can take off and let the plane fly from 500 feet AGL through the landing at their destination. It's been this way for a few decades now, and there's not much more computers can do.

SkyHigh

There is a lot yet to be taken away from flight crews. Communications, control, in flight decision making and emergency procedures could be handled largely by computers. Every little advance in technology removes another pilot function from the flight deck.

In the near future ATC could pass instructions directly to the aircraft's on board computer which then could accomplish the command without input from the flight crew. In the past airlines considered using an fleet of tugs to tow jets to the runway before they started engines for departure and met them upon landing to tow them to the gate.

UAV's have proven to be highly effective. If the government can positively control an aircraft from the back side of the globe then I am sure that dispatch could do the same with airliners. Much has been lost just over the last decade. Starting an engine use to be a two or three step process that required close observation by the crew. Today on modern planes it requires only a button push and passive observation from the crew. If there is a problem on start up the engine will shut itself down.

Automation continues to make huge advances that are slowly taking the place of the crew.

Skyhigh

HercDriver130

Maybe on some aircraft Sky.... but I was as recently as a few months back flying the ERJ170/175....and while I will admit that it was highly automated.... if there was a fault during engine start the FO still had to shut the engine down... YES the FO's start the engines in the Jungle Bus.

And with all that automation has come unprecedented safety...... I will take that any day. FWIW.... in my current gig I fly citations that have everything from pure steam gauges and a circa 1991 GPS to a fully glass primus 1000 equipped encore... the best of both worlds I guess!!!

TonyMontana

Now, there is the REAL keeper-you telling someone else how out of touch with reality they are. What do you think it does to YOUR credibility when you tell these guys that are about to loose their jobs to "hang on , and one day you'll get there too".

Priceless.

TonyMontana

I do agree there. Heyday is gone. GP's used to make a LOT more than they used too. Now a lot of med school grads are specializing and not going into Fam/Med.

I think the heyday of being an airline pilot went out with the Lockheed Constellation, jmo.

However, being a M.D. today still garners a VERY good income for me and my family. Way better than I would have EVER made as a pilot. There are good times in this job and there are terrible ones. Worst being when kids die on us in the E.R. (the ole' SAAB CA. has to go into the restroom and cry about that sometimes), but when you get to make a difference in someones life by saving it, thats the true payoff.

I was lucky. There were plenty of times in Med School when I thought about quiting, that it was too hard and I was not REALLY that smart. But I gutted it out and got through. You guys facing job loss may be feeling the same way. What the heck am I gonna do now? How will me and my family make it?

You are NOT alone. Take stock of yourself and the assets you do have. I'm not here to bash the industry. I survived it to go on to a better life and so can you. People like myself, Sky, and others are here to offer advice to those interested.

While that advice does inflame and threaten others, I continue to offer it. I answer on the average of 3-4 pm's per day-so keep 'em coming.

de727ups

"While that advice does inflame and threaten others"

Hey, it's the "Thousands of Doctors say they would leave profession if they could" thread. You've done nothing to address the article other than say you read it different than what it says. Seems pretty clear to me what it says. That many folks would leave the medical field if they could figure out how.

If folks want to leave the flying career, more power to them. Best of luck. But touting the medical field as an great way to make 300K and work less than your average pilot is....well...questionable. And I think it's great Herc found this article to give balance to the question of going into the medical profession as an alternative to "leaving the career".

In any case, I hope "the average of 3-4 pm's per day" keep us apprasied on how things go for them as they leave the career. That's really what this forum is all about...

Even just one would be nice.