SkyHigh

Deadhead,

I have enough letters of recommendation to choke a horse. I wish that was all it took. My biggest problem was that most of my best aviation friends and acquaintances were either killed on the job, laid off along with myself or got stuck on a lower rung of the ladder somewhere along the way. Few made it much farther than I did.

Moreover, to make a real difference you need a high raking, well liked person, who is pulling for you from the inside. I never had anyone like that.

Attitude is not enough. You need a pair of ruby slippers too.

Skyhigh

Toasty

There is definitely a lot of luck involved in getting the job you want in this industry. I say this for two reasons:

1) There are so many applicants and so few job opportunities.

2) We all come out of the flying schools like little clones with the same license. There isn't a great deal you can do at the beginning to differentiate yourself from the masses of other wannabes out there (unlike many other industries). The guys that started off doing flight instruction and parachute dropping quickly gave that up because it is financially unsustainable and really doesn't help your resume much.

I was fortunate in that I got straight into one of the majors while in my twenties, and now fly longhaul. I have friends who I trained with who had equal aptitude to me, but their resume didn't land on the recruitment officers desk on the right day, and therefore they never got that first airline job.

Out of the guys and girls who I trained with all those years ago, 90% of them got into the airlines, about 30% of them had to pay for a type rating to achieve it. A handful of us got cadetships, but the airline I work for doesn't recruit low houred guys anymore. I expect this to change when the economy picks up again.

Airhoss

I thought that we had already covered this subject. And in direct answer to this there is only one correct reply.B.S.!

A judicious use dose of Occam's Razor is called for here. Because this ^^^ does not pass the smell test.

1. Those friends of yours that were killed on the job were they at a major airline when they were killed? No of course not so they wouldn't have been able to help you out.

2. Those guys who were laid off weren't able to help because, well they were laid off.

3. Those guys who were stuck on a lower rung weren't able to write you a letter of recommendation because they were "stuck on a lower rung".

So when you say you had enough of letters of recommendations to choke a horse that wasn't really true was it? You didn't have one single letter of recommendation that mattered.

We've all heard of the movie "Air Bender" maybe you should write one called the "Truth Bender".

tomgoodman

Once upon a time, there was a guy who dreamed of becoming a big-city Police Captain. He worked for three police departments, each one larger than the last, and then was laid off. Along the way, he developed a secret contempt for his fellow officers, whom he considered "immature", "irresponsible", "sociopaths", and gun-toting "automatons". Of course he kept quiet about this, but cops are very perceptive, and no further employment offers were forthcoming. He later "went public" with these opinions, and does not recommend a police career to anyone.

SkyHigh

I have noticed that it usually takes friends in high places to get anywhere in aviation.

Now I have friends and I have letters of recommendation however it takes a high powered friend who has strong internal connections at a target airline in order to make a difference.

If I wanted a career at a regional, in the bush or lear jet then I am covered. Most of my peers did not make it much farther than I did. It takes someone on the inside who maintains a degree of status with the chief pilots office and is willing to go to bat for you to get the job done. (example; 5 internal recommendations for FedEx)

I don't have that when I needed it. It makes all the difference. My peer group did not make it all that far. I had no resources of friends to call upon at legacy airlines. My daddy was not an airline pilot nor was he a military guy. I was just a garden variety no-name suburban kid with a dream and that is not enough.

Skyhigh

DeadHead

So you were never even offered an interview anywhere?

SkyHigh

I was an application and resume factory. In the early years my goal every fall was to send out 200 letters, applications and resumes. A few times I drove my truck about the western US on job hunting ventures. I would cold call on nearly every company I could find.

By the time I had the minimums for the legacy airlines I kept applications on file with nearly every company that was taking them. I regularly went to job fairs and had a UPAS account.

Most of the time I never heard back from anyone. I had a huge rejection letter box of replys I did receive. My dream was to burn that box once I got a good job at a legacy airline. I ended up just throwing it away.

My regional airline job came from an unsolicited faxed resume. I had a list of companies fax numbers that I would take to kinkos every three months to have my resume sent to a dozen or so companies. I had forgotten to cross out one regional and they called me for an interview.

I got one interview at a legacy airline from a job fair.

Skyhigh

Airhoss

Once again this is untrue and it doesn't matter how many times you say it, it's still untrue. You are getting to the point of being pathological with this incorrect and flagrantly slanderous misinformation.

The 5 internal recommendations at Fed Ex are unique to Fed Ex and Fed Ex only and they are not in anyway a requirement of a pilot or other employee in high places with an inside line to the chief pilots office. They are letters from any 5 fed Ex guys, simple common line swine will do just fine.

There is no requirement for an internal recommendation at any other legacy airline that I am aware of. You speak with great authority on a subject that you obviously have no valid or current or past information about. Your peer group is proof that you guys didn't have a clue. Not one of you guys got hired that truly is a shocking reality especially considering that you were supposedly shipping out resumes during the largest airline hiring boom in recent history.

Rnav

Usually I agree with ALOT(not all) of the things Sky says, but I respectfully disagree on the "you need to know someone to make it". There are plenty of guys/gals who are average kids who've made it. Does it help to know someone, sure how can it not. That and good timing can help. But lets give people credit for working hard, putting up with alot of crap and keeping their foot in the game. If someone is willing to get **** poor wages and live in a closet(we all know a pilot who has) for a job then pat them on the back and say "your a better man than me my friend".

SkyHigh

I agree that the average Joe can make it through, however it usually takes a period of massive hiring before the man on the street has a chance. If an airline is hiring only a handful a year then there are enough pilots on the friends and family plan to fill the need. However once the need surges beyond several hundred then eventually they have to start taking unknowns from the outside.

When you do the math the odds are very long however. You are competing against the perpetual 18,000 pilots who are in the national pool and are current, qualified, have a college degree and usually are a sitting captain. The airlines only hire a small average every year. You have to be lucky enough to be current and ready at a time when there is a flush of hiring at the majors and get picked out of the 18,000.

In my estimation a hiring surge at the majors only happens every 15 years or so. If you miss the window then usually you are doomed to regional hell for the duration. Lately airlines have been adding the requirement of having multiple internal recommendations. There is no amount of luck that will get you around that. If you don't know anyone then you are not going.

Skyhigh