Glad to hear it.

Does this thread ever end?

Will Star Wars ever come to a conclusion?

Who's the last Jedi?

It's been a full week and 13 pages since you started this thread. You have not provided additional information even though several people have asked.

Did this happen in Denver on a VFR day with 12K or 16K feet of runway available?

Several posters have suggested that you were the ONLY one that realized you were a bit high and it was up to you to save the day? I suggest to you that both pilots in front of you realized that the aircraft was a bit high, but neither of them said anything or initiated a go around simply because they were not the least bit uncomfortable with the situation.

One dot high at 400 feet agl in Denver is not 'a scary situation'. That can easily be corrected by 300 feet and would not even be a concern to most experienced aviators.

I suspect neither front seat pilot were uncomfortable or concerned about the landing, and were oblivious to the fact that you were 'scared in the jumpseat'.

With that said, as a Captain, I want everyone to be comfortable on the flight deck, including the jumpseater. I always brief and expect the jump seat to speak up if they see something or are uncomfortable. I would gladly execute a missed approach for a jump seater, even if I personally didn't think it was necessary.

I would not intervene unless I thought I was going to die.

Then I would begrudgingly imply that we may be a little high.

And then there are folk who land long to make a specific turn off. (Short taxi.)

How many modern airliners have "Break to Vacate" technology? I know some of the newer airbuses have them.

The A350 and A380.

What is "Break to Vacate" technology ? (Did you mean to say "Brake")
Does it display which turnoff you'd make under existing descent path/airspeed combination ? Show a modified glide path to safely make desired turn off ? Something else ? Thanks.

Brake. Smart braking which can shoot to make a specific exit, manage brake energy in light of turn times, help prevent overshoots, and probably some other stuff.

I've been waiting for this comment all thread

I was on a flight years ago in the 1980s and the controller gave the aircraft I was in a climb. I knew there was traffic in our face and that the trainee controller screwed up; I told the pilots and they verified the climb and the controller said "affirmative", he didn't use the call sign. We were solid IMC and I watched from the jumpseat as the opposite direction traffic flew vertically around 50 feet lower then us. Could I have been more adamant?,yes, but, I was just a guest (controller) and it was the 1980s. Now that was a near miss!

I once failed a boldface for writing "breaks" instead of "brakes." Some things never change...

If the airplane gets bent, and you're in the jumpseat, you'll be hung with the other two.

Maybe if one is doing something blatant like yapping away during sterile, distracting the crew or saying it was ok to cross runway XX without clearance, but everything else? I doubt it.

Obviously in a serious event you'll be "going for the ride" and will have to lawyer up, but to assume you'll be hung equally for a "Foxtrot Uniform" on an airplane you're not Type Rated on, operated according to Ops Specs you know nothing about while probably not even using a headset is probably a stretch.

I of course can accept Paypal for any other free legal advice :D

Not unless you're a company check airman, or you caused the problem.

As an ACM, you're required to be available to assist if needed (ie sober). Nowhere in SOP does it designate you as PM #2.

That is just a moronic statement.

As it was said before you will probably get hung a lot easier distracting the crew at a low altitude trying to call go around in an airplane you have no type in while sitting in the jumpseat.

So, if you're in the jumpseat and you see a vehicle drive onto the runway, you're just gonna let the pilots land on said vehicle because you aren't typed in that airframe? I'm not gonna call a go around from the jumpseat just because the crew is a dot high on glide slope, but if I think they're about to crash and I'm about to die, you better believe I'm gonna call a go around. Ideally, it's dealt with early and you could just speak up to refocus the crew. That being said, 100 feet AGL with a vehicle on the runway isn't the time to be giving out "hints." Bottom line, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut while someone kills me because I didn't feel like it was my place to speak up.

Need a little common sense in these situations.

I don't buy that for a NY second.
You're not automatically a required crew member because you're in the jumpseat. Even if you're a company employee you may not be working that type.
Is there any OpsSpec/GOM/FOM that requires you even paying attention let alone be responsible for anything?

Not on APC you don't.

Yup you're right because if you are not typed in the aircraft you could never say hey there is a vehicle on the runway and let the crew deal with it. Why are you so special that you get to call the go around? Maybe the vehicle is on access road that you cannot see from the jumpseat.

As an ACM you are an extra set of eyes that the crew can use in a situation. To think that you should be calling a go around for a dot high on an approach on an airplane you don't fly is as I said moronic unless of course both the flight crew were sleeping and were unaware of what the hell they were doing then by all means wake them up and call go around.

I mean use some sense as I won't say common sense because it seems to be lacking in abundance here.

Do you even read posts before you respond? I said if there was a vehicle ON the runway, not a sevice road. And I also said I wouldn't tell a crew to go around for just being a dot high. However, a go around call may be appropriate in a time critical situation where you're about to die. The reason for saying "go around" vs "there's a vehicle on the runway" and letting them deal with it, is that the latter requires processing time. The words "Go around" is a standard term that invokes a set, conditioned, immediate response. Or at least it should. Again, I'm talking about a time critical situation when an immediate response is necessary. But hey, you wanna die because you didn't want to "command" something from the jumpseat, go ahead.

Isn't this horse dead yet?

If you think you're going to die, speak up. If you think the crew might be about to get violated, speak up. If you see something that makes you really uncomfortable, speak up. Otherwise, just enjoy your ride home (or to work, or wherever.)

What else is there to say?

Well, we might discuss techniques for politely raising the possibility of a go-around without committing a microagression or some other social faux pas. :p

Don't want to "trigger" the pilots

I read your post and just responded to the ridiculous part of let the airplane crash because you're not typed.

Calling go around from the jumpseat at a low altitude in a high workload environment is going to get you ignored as most people will think you are having a stroke or bad dream. Asking the crew if they see the car on the runway is going to get everyone on the same page immediately.

There is almost no reason that an offline jumpseater should be shouting "GO AROUND' from the jumpseat as all it will do is introduce more confusion in the cockpit. If you have an immediate concern to your safety and everyone onboard just inform the crew and let them take care of the situation.

I mean even an FO that have concerns about their captain being high would make their concerns known a couple times before yelling GO AROUND.

Keep your mouth shut and die like a man!!

OPs situation had nothing to do with type specific, and everything to do with FOM stable approach criteria. As a jumpseater you're part of the crew, they go long and off the end of the runway, if you don't think for one second the FAA isn't going to ask why you didn't say anything, you're delusional. Will they punish you as hard? Doubt it, but you're certainly not going to walk away by just saying "hey I was just catching a ride."

Hey, you watch it there!
The cockpit is my "safe space".

Please cite one documented example of the FAA conducting an enforcement action against a jumpseating crew member.

Grumble,

You are in no way shape or form part of the crew. You are not listed in the release, you don't sign your name anywhere and you do not need any training to sit in any type of aircraft when on the jumpseat. What FAR 117 rest rules are required of you to "crew" the jumpseat? You are an extra set of eyes that the CREW can utilize.

You have to remember that there are many people that can occupy the jumpseat that have no training in flying or aircraft operations. Are they part of the crew too? What about the passenger that notices part of the flap missing should he call go around? I mean is it just where you are sitting in the cockpit that makes you part of the crew? Wonder if you sat on the flight attendant jumpseat and helped serve some peanuts should you call for an evacuation and pop the slides?

I don't think anyone on here says don't speak up if you are about to die but to call for a go around from the jumpseat thinking your ticket is on the line because the REAL CREW is a dot high and may land outside of the touchdown area is just asinine. Please show one example of the FAA citing the jumpseater for any infraction, missed altitude, accident or incident the CREW has done.

It is not your responsibility to keep the crew in compliance any more than it is ATC when they show the airplane a dot high on the glide slope because you don't know their FOM and you are not a check airman at their airline.

You cannot cite a single time the FAA has held an offline jumpseater responsible for what the crew does let alone cite a single source showing you are part of the crew.

So, stop spreading ridiculous lies.

You will have a much better chance of the FAA going after you for calling go around from the jumpseat for being a dot high while the crew is in a high workload low altitude environment for causing a distraction during sterile cockpit.

So if you see something.. shut up and die like a man.

If you fear for your life because a crew is a dot high then you never were a man.

LOL!! Quote of the day! :D

It depends on the airlines I guess. I would be more willing if I was on an RJ rather than mainline.

Fixed it for you.....now you can be scared.

If some little rj kids scared you so badly, why complain about it in the big boy forum? There's a whole regional forum for you to talk down to some rj kids.

You better read the ALPA jumpseatinfo.org

You are indeed an additional crew member. It's even in the FARs.
You're in the computer as a jumpseater.

And if you list as a jumpseater and get a seat in back, you are subject to FAR 91 alcohol limits....because you can be utilized as an additional crew member.

There are many instances of jumpseaters, deadheaders, additional crew members helping the "real crew" as you so elequently put it. Take United 232 for example...

I'd do a little double check on your mindset there as you are absolutely wrong.

Ok first just because ALPA say it doesn't mean it is so. Second is exactly what I said you can be utilized but you are NOT A MEMBER OF THE CREW! I can utilize a large passenger to babysit a belligerent passenger does that make them a member of the crew too?

Let me put this simply YOU ARE NOT AND I WILL SAY IT AGAIN YOU ARE NOT A MEMBER OF THE CREW!!!!! One more time for those that are slow YOU ARE NOT A MEMBER OF THE CREW when you are jumpseating.

The Crew consists of the flight attendants, captain and first officer and in some scary airplanes a flight engineer. The only person that is considered CREW that sits in the jumpseat is a check airman serving in an official capacity and all of them will be listed as CREW.

YOU ARE NOT CREW on another airline when you jumpseat. You have no authority on how that flight is operated at all. You don't get to decide the route, fuel, deviations, alternates, etc. The only thing you get to decide is if you want some water and maybe a cookie because YOU ARE NOT CREW!

There is no FAA rule that says you have any responsibility for the flight when you jumpseat. There is no requirement that you get trained on all the different aircraft you can jumpseat on. There is no rest requirements when you are jumpseating because you are not on duty because YOU ARE NOT CREW.

I will say it again you are an extra set of eyes that is there to assist the REAL CREW if they need or ask for your help and guess what you can say no and do nothing because YOU ARE NOT CREW! You are not responsible for that flight, you don't know their procedures, you don't know their FOM, you don't know their waivers, you don't know $hit! So, unless you are reasonably sure the airplane is going to crash without your input please don't start yelling commands in the cockpit.

Blahhh Blahhh Blahhh! Let it go. If you see something you don't like, say something and be tactful. Just shouting "GA!" from the jumpseat is a Dic move.