Here we go again...
08-12-2017, 02:04 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 963
Originally Posted by cardiomd
It is highly regionally dependent. If you charge $55/hr in most of the midwest you will have zero students. Both seaboards that may be an appropriate rate. Know the market. I paid my instructor quite well because he would instruct at weird hours when I was very busy and it was worth it to me.
08-12-2017, 02:24 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by cardiomd
It is highly regionally dependent. If you charge $55/hr in most of the midwest you will have zero students. Both seaboards that may be an appropriate rate. Know the market. I paid my instructor quite well because he would instruct at weird hours when I was very busy and it was worth it to me.
The guy that buys a $450,000 single and expects to pay $30 an hour for instruction? He's all yours. Incidentally I have a guy just like that. He felt $75 wasn't enough so he pays me $100. A mere $11 less than I get flying the Airbus.
I also charge contact time not Hobbs. But I don't drink coffee in the FBO during the preflight. I'm there for every single one. At $75 an hour.
I'm independent with an agreement with a flight school. I bring the student, they bill me out at $75, I keep $65. Client owned aircraft on my own it's $75.
150 certs/ratings, 25 additional solos that never finished, 95% pass rate, 4600 dual given. All over a 26 year period. Psychology degree. Published author. CRM/Human factors speaker. I'm worth more than $55.
Last edited by Std Deviation; 08-12-2017 at 02:36 PM.
08-12-2017, 02:32 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 174
Safety regs should be made stronger not weaker. Don't substitute a video for hours. If they want to watch more videos in class then add that to the CTP program at regionals. This is nothing but a money grab for regional CEO's who want to get cheap pilots. There are plenty of experienced ATP's who would come back if the pay was raised.
With that said I don't think this will get passed Charles Schumer, good thing he is there. If there is any weakening of safety standards it probably won't happen for a few years.
With that said I don't think this will get passed Charles Schumer, good thing he is there. If there is any weakening of safety standards it probably won't happen for a few years.
08-12-2017, 05:30 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by Std Deviation
So MDs reduce their rates based on region? A doctor is balking about paying more than $55 an hour? Not my kind of student. I charge $75 in Dallas ($15 more than the guy instructing me on deadlifts and squats). I've got docs, lawyers, blue jean millionaires not batting an eye about my rates. I'm turning students away.
The guy that buys a $450,000 single and expects to pay $30 an hour for instruction? He's all yours. Incidentally I have a guy just like that. He felt $75 wasn't enough so he pays me $100. A mere $11 less than I get flying the Airbus.
I also charge contact time not Hobbs. But I don't drink coffee in the FBO during the preflight. I'm there for every single one. At $75 an hour.
I'm independent with an agreement with a flight school. I bring the student, they bill me out at $75, I keep $65. Client owned aircraft on my own it's $75.
150 certs/ratings, 25 additional solos that never finished, 95% pass rate, 4600 dual given. All over a 26 year period. Psychology degree. Published author. CRM/Human factors speaker. I'm worth more than $55.
The guy that buys a $450,000 single and expects to pay $30 an hour for instruction? He's all yours. Incidentally I have a guy just like that. He felt $75 wasn't enough so he pays me $100. A mere $11 less than I get flying the Airbus.
I also charge contact time not Hobbs. But I don't drink coffee in the FBO during the preflight. I'm there for every single one. At $75 an hour.
I'm independent with an agreement with a flight school. I bring the student, they bill me out at $75, I keep $65. Client owned aircraft on my own it's $75.
150 certs/ratings, 25 additional solos that never finished, 95% pass rate, 4600 dual given. All over a 26 year period. Psychology degree. Published author. CRM/Human factors speaker. I'm worth more than $55.
08-16-2017, 07:45 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 988
Originally Posted by Std Deviation
So MDs reduce their rates based on region? A doctor is balking about paying more than $55 an hour? Not my kind of student. I charge $75 in Dallas ($15 more than the guy instructing me on deadlifts and squats). I've got docs, lawyers, blue jean millionaires not batting an eye about my rates. I'm turning students away.
Originally Posted by Std Deviation
The guy that buys a $450,000 single and expects to pay $30 an hour for instruction? He's all yours. Incidentally I have a guy just like that. He felt $75 wasn't enough so he pays me $100. A mere $11 less than I get flying the Airbus.
I also charge contact time not Hobbs. But I don't drink coffee in the FBO during the preflight. I'm there for every single one. At $75 an hour.
I'm independent with an agreement with a flight school. I bring the student, they bill me out at $75, I keep $65. Client owned aircraft on my own it's $75.
150 certs/ratings, 25 additional solos that never finished, 95% pass rate, 4600 dual given. All over a 26 year period. Psychology degree. Published author. CRM/Human factors speaker. I'm worth more than $55.
I also charge contact time not Hobbs. But I don't drink coffee in the FBO during the preflight. I'm there for every single one. At $75 an hour.
I'm independent with an agreement with a flight school. I bring the student, they bill me out at $75, I keep $65. Client owned aircraft on my own it's $75.
150 certs/ratings, 25 additional solos that never finished, 95% pass rate, 4600 dual given. All over a 26 year period. Psychology degree. Published author. CRM/Human factors speaker. I'm worth more than $55.
08-16-2017, 08:04 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 988
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
If a pilot is "mindlessly sitting in an airplane" then they probably shouldn't be there. I don't know what you did for your first 1500 hours of flying time, but by the time I got to 1500 TT, I had some pretty solid experience. I don't believe anyone is saying that a certain number of hours is going to determine how good a pilot is. There are more subjective evaluations of that throughout the training process. It's simply a starting point.
Whether it's instructing, 135 single pilot ops, military flying, there's value in flight hours and experience. Keeping a 250 hour product of a puppy mill out of an RJ cockpit where what little skills and experience he has will atrophy is a good thing. It's possible a pilot could fly 1500 pattern only flights, 1 hour at a time around his home drome in a -152, rack up 1500 hours and few thousand touch and gos and meet the requirement. But when he goes to his interview, the quality of his flight experience is going to come out. If they decide to hire him, there's still the hurdle of initial training, the sim/LOFTs and IOE. Same thing if and when he tries to upgrade. The guys upgrading in 6-12 months maybe those guys you mentioned who were out-flying everyone when they had 500 hours and have decision making skills that would water your eyes. Who knows? But there has to be some level of trust in the evaluations these pilots are given during training before they're released to the line. A lot of flying and valuable experience can happen in 6-12 months. You scoff at 1500 hours of flight time as a benchmark for a new-hire, but somehow 6-12 months is your personal cutoff to allow a guy to upgrade? What's acceptable there? 15 months? 24? Back to hours again? Chances are the guy's showing up with bare minimum qualifications as a new hire wouldn't be ready for upgrade if they tried.
My point is that most guys with 1500 hours have probably flown those hours doing something other than "mindlessly sitting" and there are some pretty good filters beyond just hours before they arrive in the right seat of something flying passengers. So, hours are not the one an only thing being looked at when evaluating a pilot's capabilities, but there has to be a minimum. Using the flight hours required for an ATP seems like a reasonably good starting point.
Whether it's instructing, 135 single pilot ops, military flying, there's value in flight hours and experience. Keeping a 250 hour product of a puppy mill out of an RJ cockpit where what little skills and experience he has will atrophy is a good thing. It's possible a pilot could fly 1500 pattern only flights, 1 hour at a time around his home drome in a -152, rack up 1500 hours and few thousand touch and gos and meet the requirement. But when he goes to his interview, the quality of his flight experience is going to come out. If they decide to hire him, there's still the hurdle of initial training, the sim/LOFTs and IOE. Same thing if and when he tries to upgrade. The guys upgrading in 6-12 months maybe those guys you mentioned who were out-flying everyone when they had 500 hours and have decision making skills that would water your eyes. Who knows? But there has to be some level of trust in the evaluations these pilots are given during training before they're released to the line. A lot of flying and valuable experience can happen in 6-12 months. You scoff at 1500 hours of flight time as a benchmark for a new-hire, but somehow 6-12 months is your personal cutoff to allow a guy to upgrade? What's acceptable there? 15 months? 24? Back to hours again? Chances are the guy's showing up with bare minimum qualifications as a new hire wouldn't be ready for upgrade if they tried.
My point is that most guys with 1500 hours have probably flown those hours doing something other than "mindlessly sitting" and there are some pretty good filters beyond just hours before they arrive in the right seat of something flying passengers. So, hours are not the one an only thing being looked at when evaluating a pilot's capabilities, but there has to be a minimum. Using the flight hours required for an ATP seems like a reasonably good starting point.
