Excargodog

Yes, they will give a reliable flow of pilots to the majors, but I'm not sure that has ever been much of a problem and I doubt it will be in the future.

It seems to me that the primary purpose of flow programs is to allow the regional airlines to continue to fill new hire classes without really raising salaries to the level the market would otherwise demand.

A mainline job is that promised pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that will keep classes full for the wholly owned regional despite sometimes p|$$-poor work rules and a FO starting salary of $39 an hour. And it seems - at least to some extent - to be working.

But is it a good idea?

Right now the regionals are hurting and they are hiring people that they would have simply never hired a few years back. Basically,if you meet ATP or the applicable RATP minimums and have 25 hours of multi engine time, you are Pretty much in at any of the regionals. In with a bonus oftentimes.

Entry level regional guys have been in short supply. No longer do you have much of a technical interview, nobody flies a sim, and the HR interview is sort of cursive. If you have a flying class 1 physical, a radiotelephone license, and are able to fog a mirror, you are our boy (or girl).

Historical criteria like meaningful flying experience ain't a requirement. If you got 1475 hours of Cessna 152 time and took the whole 25 hours of your ME time just to get your multi engine in an old Apache, that's close enough. The HR interviews are a little loosey-goosey too. If the FAA medical people didn't care about those three DUIs, why should we?

Now that's NOT to say that any of those things ought to disqualify people per se, but just so everyone understands,entry criteria to the regionals have been loosened big time. Which gets us back to the original is due of flow.

Is it really adequate to accept the kind of screening the regional hiring people are doing now, even with six or seven years of not getting in any trouble while working at regional wages as adequate screening for coming to the majors. Because that's what is coming down the line. You won't see it immediately - those currently eligible for flow programs were competitively chosen back when there really was competition for those jobs. No, this is a problem that won't manifest itself really for a couple of years,and clearly, the worst if these people will either fail their initial training or sufficiently screw up in the 6-7 year period of employment before they flow to be eliminated, but even so, this is a huge change in the nature of screening for pilots for the majors.

What do you think? Good idea or bad, to essentially guarantee a job at the major after 6-7 years of working at the regional.

PotatoChip

It's a bad idea.
There should ONLY be mainline. There should be no "regional".
One level of hiring. One level of safety. One seniority list.
Anything else is a concession.

Fleet Warp

this ^^^^^^^

Ed Force One

"Guaranteed job at a major?"

I had a "guaranteed" job at a major when I got hired at Continental Express in 1999. (For $18/hr, not 39, BTW) And we all know what happened there. (I'm not bitter, honest, just providing an example.)

These flow through agreements are nothing more than a carrot on a string. I suppose it's nice to know it's there as an insurance policy of sorts, but don't stop updating your resume elsewhere.

CLRtoPush

You moron; if regionals didn’t exist the same folks you are agreeing to label as idiots hired by the regionals would be hired by the majors to fill the same seat. At least LCCs and ULCCs are able to filter out the regional idiots majors have piloting the jets they own. A major with no flow, just keeps the problem pilots concentrated at the regional they contract out to.

RunnerMark

I disagree, but thanks for the insult. And I never labeled anyone as an idiot.

rickair7777

Upside to a serious flow program...
-You get to apply mainline hiring standards to the people flying your feed.
-You get to attract the most competitive entry-level applicants.

Downside...
-High standards at the entry-level are of limited use. You're missing all of that professional turbine and PIC experience. You're evaluating them on HS GPA and whether or not they got caught doing the usual stupid frat boy tricks. You're basically committing to employ a 22 year old for 40+ years. You could I suppose apply some gateways, ie flow beneficiaries have to maintain certain standards with regard to criminal, training, discipline, etc.

Excargodog

Do you seriously think that's being done? Because as someone who recently applied to three regionals - and was given CJOs at all three - that process wasn't readily apparent.

at6d

Hey don’t forget—at Eagle we had flowbacks (placed in captain seats per the agreement) that had never been a 121 captain before.

There are drawbacks for the backside of a flow through agreement, too!

I’m glad I work for a carrier that doesn’t use regionals.

jcountry

I think the programs are good (overall.)

I’m an off the street guy, but all the flows I have met are good folks.

I think the airline experience is helpful. Especially the knowledge and experience with contracts and work environment. That’s something which has been missing from some legacies and having more people around who understand that stuff should be helpful-especially in terms of improving our union.