asacap

Hey UConnQB14,

You're an idiot!

Pilotpip

Don't blame AOPA for getting people into flying. Their organization, and for that matter, magazine aren't geared in any way towards newbies wanting to fly for the airlines. A vast majority of people getting their licenses aren't going past the private. They do it for the same reason we start any hobby. They want to do it. Short of the military, flight instruction is about the only way to build time any more. The students pulling up to my flight school in their Bimmers and Jags aren't looking to take your jobs, they already make more money than you (or I) will ever make doing this.

If you want to blame somebody, start with places like Delta Academy, Gulfstream, and any other place that makes you pay to fly for them. While you're at it, blame the idiots that are working for those rediculous wages after giving them thousands to learn to fly(and blacklist every one of them so they're stuck where they are). Blame your company for taking routes and jobs away from you and giving them to the Mesas of the industry while putting you on the street. Blame everybody for the proliferation of 70-100 seat RJs because scope clauses are being lifted. Blame your fellow pilots for being willing to cut each others' throats so they can say they fly a jet.

This industry is changing, and it's not going to be for the better until we start working together. Cynical pilots who are fighting with each other isn't going to solve the problem. It's time for the unions to start representing all their employees' best intrests, rather than the 64 year olds making the most. Take a proactive approach against these places promising an airline job if you pay them. Make sure that people know they aren't flying on the mainline carriers when they get on that 90 seater (if they can force airlines to notify that the aircraft is not made here, they can make the regionals state who you're really flying on).

The more I read this fourm, the more I'm leaning towards 135 flying. I guess that's the answer you guys like, it gives you job security.

B767flyr

So UConn, you don't want/need the money.... maybe you're a rich kid, or just ignorant or both...What a bunch of self-righteous, manufactured, patronizing tripe coming from a kid who's got wet ink on his instrument ticket, and no commerical time. Get a thousand or two thousand hours flying for hire on the bottom of the civilian food chain for a couple years, then see if you can preach the same moronic sermon...you'll change your tune fast.

HSLD

I'd like to encourage everyone to take the high road with respect to assigning IQ points to other members.

This is a public board, and we all have our opinions, I respect that. However, a little education for neophytes goes a bit further than name calling - of course it requires more typing - but do it for prosperity. We do have some guidelines regarding name calling in the terms of use for the site, please review them should you need to. Thanks.

While I'm here, here's my two cents: I didn't see where UConnQB14 was looking to break into the ranks as a working Airline Pilot. If he wants to fly his Cessna "for the love of flying", more power to him. However, if he wants to carry that attitude into the cockpit and sit next to a real working airline pilot I think he's in for a rude awakening in terms of a disappointing career path and lack of friends at work. These attitudes come from a neophytes complete and total lack of understanding of what the job entails and what the issues are as a career choice. A private pilot with an instrument ticket isn't a working pilot. To suggest otherwise would be like me saying I'm a brain surgeon because I took a biology course.

Educating the newbies takes a bit more effort, but can pay dividends to all working pilots in the future.

Pilotpip

I agree with you wholeheartedly HSLD. I'm still on that "neophyte" side myself but I've been working in the industry for 5 years now in various roles as well as having a degree in aviation science. I know what I'm getting into and I won't sell myself to the lowest bidder just to fly a jet. I'll stick to instructing in 172s or night cargo in Barons and wait to make something I can live on. Less than 1% of this country can fly an airplane. Less than 10% of those are commercial pilots. I'd say we're a pretty rare breed and we need to protect ourselves while looking out for each other. It bennefits all of us in the long run. Don't bash us dreamers(at one time you were too), help them realize that they are worth a lot more than they think. Point out that they deserve a fair wage and what some of these companies pay isn't anywhere near a fair wage. Take some pride in your skills and set a higher standard.

One of the things I find most dejecting about this carreer path is how bitter many pilots are. I work at an FBO that has the whole spectrum from 91 to 121, 152 to 747 so I've seen a lot of perspectives. It's really disheartening to see the bickering and finger-pointing within this industry. What's even worse, is that it's happening amongst brothers and sisters that are doing the same thing. Those planes can't fly without us at the controls, or the mechanics fixing them, or the rampers fueling and loading them and so on.

In taking the high road, I'd also suggest talking to your reps about getting ads in all of the trade mags like Plane and Pilot or Flying. Every time there's a Gulfstream/Delta Academy ad with that cool looking jet or that new pilot grinning from the cockpit put an ad next to it letting them know what they're buying into. They're buying our jobs.

SkyHigh

Pilotpip,

Yea, I like that ad idea. I have always liked the ad that shows a guy dressed in construction garb who, Thanks to some airline academy, transforms into a guy dressed in a pilot uniform and is standing on the air stairs of a CRJ. We could do a similar ad but in reverse with the pilot going to construction because of low wages or furlough. We could do another ad that states the starting wages at a few of the most popular regionals in big numbers and below the ad would read" For Just $50 a day you could help a regional airline pilot to make his student loan payment this month" . I don't think flying magazine would do it though. They are trying to sell pilot licenses not turn them away.

SkyHigh

UConnQB14

yes, you are all right in sme respect... you ARE deciding what my future payscale will be and i do apologize for sounding immature on this one.. right now, i am graduating the University of Connecticut with an Econ degree and have played football here at UConn for 4 years now (check the roster)... for the military guys, understand that when i was graduating high school in 2002, it wasnt the best time to enlist, although i could have gone to AFA for football.. in a nutshell, i just want to fly, thats all... yes, i understand we all need money, but it is very hard for people like myself to work the way up to where you are right now.. we spend thousands of dollars to build up ratings and time, and for those who are neither good in the cockpit or get fed up with insufficient funds, they get weeded out along the way.. i myself am in it for the longhaul, but as someone pointed out, i probably will complain one day.. some pilots complain about payscales and stuff while they are holding the line, but they should go ask their friends who got the big "F" and hear their tale of woe first.. and yes, there are a lot of pilots, its very easy to enjoy.. but there are very few who want this to be their life.. very few will spend the money from a civilian standpoint.. for the military guys, remember its not just civilians taking jobs, its military too... simply put, there arent enough jobs to go around.. i am not going to knock the military guys, but i think you need to put it into perspective a little bit how different our lives are.. you were given thousands of hours (probably 2500hrs jet time) and didnt pay a cent... im not going to start a military/civilian battle here, but imagine if you had to take the "hard" road to that plush left seat and saw the $50,000 bill for timebuilding.. i think you would have a different perspective.

.. sorry to sound pushy, but its difficult to have war over this when everyone is supposed to be in it for the same reasons

P. von Harten
QB- UConn Football

SkyHigh

UConn,

Well done. I would simply like to point out that everyone who turns their first prop has the mindset that they are "in it for the long haul". We all also are convinced on day one that we have what it takes to make it to the left seat of a 777. A lot of this industry looks great on paper but doesnt pan out in real life. I admire your convictions but it is a long and hard road. Sometimes even the best of efforts fall short. Keep that positive attitude as long as you can.

SkyHigh

UConnQB14

i see what everyone is saying about me being new.. yes, i am.. but i came to this site looking for some sort of promise in my career decision.. i dont fly for hire, im not a left seater in a triple, but i do enjoy what it is i am limited to doing.. no, im not a rich kid like someone posted.. ive been working the line and filling tanks for years to get my tickets, so daddy never gave me money to fly.. im sorry if i disrupted your forum board by being "too new" or too young to this business.. ill even do everyone a favor and never post again..
and about the AOPA, sorry for my membership... i just dont see many other orgs that help young pilots out like they do. im not as arrogant as people think, i am just outspoken(maybe too much) about things like this, because a site like this is supposed to promote the industry in some respects, not send everyone wishing they were in a GV far away from the airline life

LAfrequentflyer

If you wanted to fly you should have gone to the AFA...Why was the military / AF such a bad place to be in 02???

_LA