I look at per diem as a reimbursement for what i've spent on the road, therefore not compensation. Thinking about per diem as compensation has a direct correlation to one's tendancy to slam-click...

XJT 20yr CA 6 months/UAL 737 new hire 6 months
Gross $97k (64.5@xjt/32.5@UA)
Per Diem $6.5k
DC $11k
Total Compensation $114.5k

I view per diem as a bonus. The more crew meals I eat. The more I can use it for my doctor visits.

The idea here is to compare earning potential; If we all just list gross and then per diem it keeps its standard. If you don't list perdiem then people will assume its part of your pay.

Its also not a bad idea to list company retirement. All the other dollar figures are too abstract and confusing for those of us who haven't had our coffee yet.


Gross pay: 1 Million Dollars!!
Per Diem : xxxx
Company Retirement Contrib: yyyyy

Bonus = taxable income. Per Diem... deducted from gross income. Contributions to a Qualfied Deferred Compensation Plan are not included as income unless the “C” part of CODA, if one is in effect, is taken advantage of. Said account is subject to a vesting schedule too.

col·lo·qui·al·ism
/kəˈlōkwēəˌlizəm/Submit
noun
a word or phrase that is not formal or literary, typically one used in ordinary or familiar conversation.
"the colloquialisms of the streets"
the use of ordinary or familiar words or phrases.
"speech allows for colloquialism and slang"

Mazel tov... you know how to google. Anyway OOfff, perhaps ou posted on the wrong forum. Visit the “Masters of the English Language” forum.

No slam-click here.:cool:

:D

More expat summaries
 

Year 7/8 widebody FO in HKG.

Gross wages: $188,000
Retirement: $25,175
Per diem: about $10,500

Total: $223k

Sounds reasonable enough.

Low tax, minimal healthcare costs, which helps offset the simply enormous cost of living here.

Generally 3 long-hauls a month (25-33 hours flying each), mostly 4 day trips. Odd short flight thrown in. 15-16 days off a month on average. Small amount of roster control.

Nothing ever gets better, and management nickel and dime over everything, and are constantly after concessions regarding manning levels, crew complements, rostering agreements etc. Minimal work rules compared to you guys in the US.

Weighing my options. I don’t have a degree or TPIC, which limits my options in the US, and I don’t want to head to Europe as the jobs are, frankly, garbage.

Guess I’ll just stay here and moan!

United 737 Cap 12+ years (top scale)

Flight pay 316500
B-fund and RHA
company contribution 50,400
Profit sharing 17600
per diem 6300


684 hard. 1120 credit. 15 days off per month average.

Nice. I’ll be glad to get off first year pay. Commuting on year one pay was a kick to the jimmies. Worth it in the long run, though.

Wow. That’s $40K more than I made and 100 less block!

How did you do that? LOL Obviously I screwed up.

I’m guessing unused on reserve then open time

Yup. Open time or easy money TTGA pickups.

Not all per diem is the same. Let me explain. At United, a LAX based narrow body pilot that bids ONT trips gets $170 per trip of crosstown pay, which is lumped into the non-tax per diem column.

Minimum 4 trips per month (more if you bid one and 2 day trips) $170 x 4 = $680 per month x 12 months = $8160 extra in the per diem column.

Moral of the story, that’s additional income, and doesn’t equate to more work compared to pilots that only fly trips out of LAX.

But it’s also additional expense, theoretically. Driving, or using Uber, across town, and/or parking at ONT eats up a bunch of that $170, right?

Why would it be unless the guy lives right at LAX? If anything, it may mean less traffic and a shorter drive.

For those that bid ONT trips (or SNA or BUR), they usually live closer to those airports, and avoid hours in traffic to LAX.

Short term parking is reimbursed by the company.

In addition to the $170?

Yes, and in addition to the regular per diem.

Cross town pay for:
ONT $170
SNA $135
BUR $86

Isn't it called "Doubletown" ?

Why leave out days off or days worked? Also per diem was left out so nobody could work the math for TAFB. A lot may read that and be mislead thinking that’s normal pay for year 2/3 based on the block hours. The whole point of this thread is to provide the additional info if your pay is anything other than a fly your line and go home type of example.

Per diem, $6600
Days off: do I include the days I sat at home on reserve and didn’t fly? I had a bunch.

I definitely work more than just my line, but I try to work smarter, not harder. I also live near a busy station so sleep at home frequently while also collecting per diem.

Well, go back a couple pages and you'll see why. Some see this as some sort of a penis measuring contest and they're the ones attacking or ridiculing people for posting their per diem, profit sharing, B-plan contributions, etc.

Others see it as gathering data and seeing the effects of work rules and other contractual items. The more information you put down, the more educated other pilots become. For example, one can see the effects of profit sharing... if you choose to include it. Case in point, some pilot groups may get decent pay rates, but no profit sharing and in the present time, that's shorting the pilot group to the tunes of tens of thousands of dollars per pilot. But do you really see it if you don't share the actual numbers?

Or per diem... there's a world of difference between the guy who earned 207k plus 7.4k in per diem vs. a guy who earned 207k plus 3.7k in per diem. I don't know about you, but I'd much rather be the latter for obvious reasons. In any case, the more data provided, the clearer the picture.

I just wish/hope that when 2019 W-2 thread starts, the commentary is limited or put in a separate thread and let the data be shared - the more the better.

I originally left out per diem because I feel that people who look at it as compensation do so at the peril of their quality of life on the road. I look at it simply as a reimbursement for expenses incurred.


However, looking it as a metric for TAFB isn't one I'd considered but that makes sense as a barometer for how much one actually had do work to get that salary. I don't have a TAFB or total days worked count. But even if i did, I've got several days where I was on reserve but never left the house.



This is a salary survey. If we want a more comprehensive look at how hard/little we worked to earn that salary, then let's start that thread. Nights in a hotel/crash pad and TAFB would help paint that fuller picture.

^^^^exactly^^^^

Tweaked/corrected the numbers

UAL 12+ year NB CAP

Regular Pay 257.5K
Per Diem 8.0K
Profit Sharing 17.4K
On-Time (Performance) Bonuses .8K
401K 43.8K
Total Compensation 327.5K
Credit Hours 945
HRS Flown 632
Days Worked 132
AVG Time Away From Base 186 hrs./mo

Hotel Stays 71

ZERO time spent in a crash pad

Live in Domicile, Line Holder w/23 years Seniority.


- Octa

Nights in a crash pad/hotel are going to tell you if someone is a commuter, and not much more than that. We have some people who do nothing but out and backs, live in base, and never stay in a hotel. Yet some of them work constantly and have far more block hours than many who commute.

True...there are different situations that will skew results. I’ve had months where hardly left my house but still credited will over 100 hours. So low block doesn’t always tell the whole story.

Atlas (2 months @ 747 Year 1 Pay w/ Overtime):

Pay: 19,500
Per Diem: 1,800
Company 401k: 700
= 22,000
------
13 overnights/15 days worked
Hours Flown: 85

___________________________________________
Delta (10 months @ Year 1 Pay with 3-4 Green Slips):

Pay: 73,000
Per Diem: 3,500
Company 401k: 11,500
= 88,000
------
51 overnights/82 days worked
+30 training overnights/45 training days (2 types in one year+indoc)
Hours Flown: 280


Commuter (but no crash pad needed)

That is highly dependent on the trip. A 3 day NRT trip for me is really only 2 meals.

UPS 767 Intl FO. Year 2/3 pay. $215,335.

Not including per diem. Not including B fund. Exactly one day late arrival. No overtime, no open time. No sick check. Flew my line and went home. 397 hours block.

160 days of work including commutes. 140 overnights. Work as little as possible.

Alternatively, a company like *****could provide an all-in-one solution for any airline pilot, removing a lot of the headaches from this sort of equation.

If you want to advertise you can buy ads up top.

Mod note: marcal is correct.

3/4 YR Endeavor RJ900 CA

$130k Gross

Average about 14-15 days off. A few months where I was down to 10-11 to PU150/200 flying. Relatively easy when living in base.

Good to know at least one regional is paying a respectable wage for captains. My regional 3/4 year pay may break 80k, but definitely not with 15 days off. Most guys topped out at my shop are in the 130k range

I did about 120 at PSA this year. Would've been about 100, but the holiday pay (200%) was good to me. I was on 4 year pay, 75 an hour ish. Average 12-13 off.

175, plus the override?
My math works out to 100hrs credit every month, about 13 days, with a 7.5 avg per day. And you did nothing extra? And you're a lineholder or reserve, because 66% of your pay is soft time? Tell me my math is wrong somewhere.

I should have taken my ups interview.

I believe they have 13 pay periods instead on 12.

Delta 3-4 year 7er fo. 310 ish block
181k
In base reserve