New FAA Admin supports 1,500 HR rule
07-24-2019, 05:07 PM
#11
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Posts: 648
Originally Posted by symbian simian
None of the EU legacy carriers are p2f. Even Ryan doesn't charge the full cost anymore. (and no one in the EU requires a useless 4 year degree.)
Restricting entry to increase the wages? Not very American....( Free market and all)
The only reason we have 1500 hours is because a 5000hr pilot crashed a plane. He failed every possible check ride multiple times. Better training and checking improves safety much more than an hour requirement, but yes, if you are only interested in keeping your pay, by all means, support 1500hr.
Restricting entry to increase the wages? Not very American....( Free market and all)
The only reason we have 1500 hours is because a 5000hr pilot crashed a plane. He failed every possible check ride multiple times. Better training and checking improves safety much more than an hour requirement, but yes, if you are only interested in keeping your pay, by all means, support 1500hr.
And while a pilot had 5000 hours, he lacked basic airmanship skills that he would have learned if he hadn't stepped into the right seat of a passenger operation with a wet commercial. While an hour requirement is a broad net, even ignoring the wage pressure, it is a good requirement to mandate anyone stepping into the right seat of a transport category jet have a few years of experience as a commercial pilot.
07-24-2019, 05:08 PM
#12
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by symbian simian
None of the EU legacy carriers are p2f. Even Ryan doesn't charge the full cost anymore. (and no one in the EU requires a useless 4 year degree.)
Restricting entry to increase the wages? Not very American....( Free market and all)
The only reason we have 1500 hours is because a 5000hr pilot crashed a plane. He failed every possible check ride multiple times. Better training and checking improves safety much more than an hour requirement, but yes, if you are only interested in keeping your pay, by all means, support 1500hr.
Restricting entry to increase the wages? Not very American....( Free market and all)
The only reason we have 1500 hours is because a 5000hr pilot crashed a plane. He failed every possible check ride multiple times. Better training and checking improves safety much more than an hour requirement, but yes, if you are only interested in keeping your pay, by all means, support 1500hr.
- Is cheaper to learn to fly
- Has a more robust and vibrant GA community
- Overall has higher wages
- Has more job opportunities from the top to the bottom
- Has better job security overall
So we are doing something right, yes?
07-24-2019, 05:26 PM
#13
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Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,240
Originally Posted by Varsity
You left out the part about working for a 3rd rate employment 'agency' as a contractor. Even the vaunted British Airways does that. Lufthansa has a regional airline flying A340's. Should we do that too?
The police in Germany love kicking in pilot's doors over their contractor status..
European pilots also don't get paid as much, have as much career stability, have as much schedule flexibility.
Flying in Europe sucks. Anyone who has done both will tell you so. The last thing on earth we want in the US is some schizophrenic euro pilot market.
The police in Germany love kicking in pilot's doors over their contractor status..
European pilots also don't get paid as much, have as much career stability, have as much schedule flexibility.
Flying in Europe sucks. Anyone who has done both will tell you so. The last thing on earth we want in the US is some schizophrenic euro pilot market.
07-24-2019, 05:32 PM
#14
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Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 76
The only reason Europe has that '200hr straight to 737' system is they dont have any 91/91k/135 ecosystem.
LH/AF/BA/LX/KLM need a couple hundreds pilot a year each (number doesnt matter here). Sure they can find a couple guys with king air/citation experience but then what ? The class is 80% empty. They're left with the 200hr wonders.
Another big factor is that EU doesnt have thousands of pilots coming out of the military every year. Take the military guys out of the US equation and the hiring landscape would be radically different.
LH/AF/BA/LX/KLM need a couple hundreds pilot a year each (number doesnt matter here). Sure they can find a couple guys with king air/citation experience but then what ? The class is 80% empty. They're left with the 200hr wonders.
Another big factor is that EU doesnt have thousands of pilots coming out of the military every year. Take the military guys out of the US equation and the hiring landscape would be radically different.
07-24-2019, 05:35 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by ChecklistMonkey
No one in the United States REQUIRES a 4 year degree but certainly you need one to be competitive. That's life. US companies find value in their pilots having a college education, much to your chagrin.
And while a pilot had 5000 hours, he lacked basic airmanship skills that he would have learned if he hadn't stepped into the right seat of a passenger operation with a wet commercial. While an hour requirement is a broad net, even ignoring the wage pressure, it is a good requirement to mandate anyone stepping into the right seat of a transport category jet have a few years of experience as a commercial pilot.
And while a pilot had 5000 hours, he lacked basic airmanship skills that he would have learned if he hadn't stepped into the right seat of a passenger operation with a wet commercial. While an hour requirement is a broad net, even ignoring the wage pressure, it is a good requirement to mandate anyone stepping into the right seat of a transport category jet have a few years of experience as a commercial pilot.
07-24-2019, 05:35 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Name User
You're not wrong but when you compare US aviation to the EU, the US:
So we are doing something right, yes?
- Is cheaper to learn to fly
- Has a more robust and vibrant GA community
- Overall has higher wages
- Has more job opportunities from the top to the bottom
- Has better job security overall
So we are doing something right, yes?
07-24-2019, 05:57 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by symbian simian
Both DL and FedEx require a 4 year. His training record should have prevented him from getting in the left seat of any commercial operation.
07-24-2019, 07:16 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by ChecklistMonkey
And the qualification would be dropped the instant the the candidate quality began to suffer.
I've flown in the EU, my company hired a lot of 185tt hour pilots (I wasn't one). It required a while for them to develop the big picture, but none that I flew with had the issues I sometimes saw in the higher time people as far as skills/airmanship. I think it is the same reason the military can put pilots in a fast jet with a 100 hours: they only put the people there that belong there. Screening is important and the school we got them from would do that before the bank would give you money. Just passing an ATP checkride does not qualify.
Last edited by symbian simian; 07-24-2019 at 07:27 PM.
07-24-2019, 07:25 PM
#19
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Joined APC: May 2017
Position: 175 CA
Posts: 1,285
Originally Posted by symbian simian
Still not replying to the important issue.
Even in a 172, go, no go, weather, CRM (CFI) ADM, you name it.
The Euro wonder kids probably do fine slinging gear in brand new airplanes, in benign European weather (basically nothing) while a 20year captain tells them what to do.
Sitting in the left seat of an MD-80 navigating thunderstorms strong enough to rip the wings off like a beer can at night on min fuel isn't in their league.
07-24-2019, 07:30 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by Varsity
1500 hours of PIC decision making before flying pax is a good idea.
Even in a 172, go, no go, weather, CRM (CFI) ADM, you name it.
The Euro wonder kids probably do fine slinging gear in brand new airplanes, in benign European weather (basically nothing) while a 20year captain tells them what to do.
Sitting in the left seat of an MD-80 navigating thunderstorms strong enough to rip the wings off like a beer can at night on min fuel isn't in their league.
Even in a 172, go, no go, weather, CRM (CFI) ADM, you name it.
The Euro wonder kids probably do fine slinging gear in brand new airplanes, in benign European weather (basically nothing) while a 20year captain tells them what to do.
Sitting in the left seat of an MD-80 navigating thunderstorms strong enough to rip the wings off like a beer can at night on min fuel isn't in their league.
I flew as a 2000hr captain, non GPS/FMS turboprop in the north of Spain, non-radar ATC, so full procedure, and if you think there's no weather there.....
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