"Is he a freak or exception to every rule? Maybe. But he's there. And he did it. And I have to believe if he did a lot of other guys can too"

Skyhigh has publically stated that a career at SWA is beneath him. I think that says a lot about how skewed his views are and why nobody should pay him any mind.

Ranger
 

Ranger,

I have nothing but deep respect and admiration for all of our Vets. It just seems that whenever they get backed into a corner they love to pull the "I am a Vietnam Vet" card and seem to suggest that it makes their views more valid somehow.

I think that even though you and I have different opinions that you would like me if you were to meet me in person.

I have nothing but the deepest respect for you and all vets.

Skyhigh

PS thank you for asking but my family and I are all well.

I am a freak
 

I am a freak and have never been able to be a brain dead line guy.

I can not happily place my future into the hands of airline executives.

I don't want to move away from my home.

I don't want to be gone from my family for more than half the year.

I don't like being poor.

I don't like being disrespected and treated like filth by my employer.

I don't believe that the typical airline career can lead to future prosperity.

And lastly I do not have any faith that this industry will do anything other than continue down hill. The success stories of today will be the hard luck cases of tomorrow. I am sorry if you guys don't have the same perspective as I. I am different. I measure what had been lost against what is yet to be gained. After all the sacrifices, moves, pain and losses in the end it is only a job and a poor one at that.

The path to a successful airline career leads to the destruction of everything else.

Proudly Different,

SkyHigh

You can say all that, but deep down you miss it, deep down you still want a piece of it, otherwise you would not be here on message board with other airline pilots. It must be hard, it is something I hope I never have to live through. I sincerely wish you the best.

AA

Sure
 

Yes, I do miss it a lot. My family and I are much better off now but it is difficult to leave a lifetime dream behind. It is the only thing I believe that a responsible person could do in my situation.

SkyHigh

Then revel in your better life and stop ****ing in other's rice crispies as an apparent hobby. What do you do around Christmas...go to the mall and scream at 3 year-olds that Santa is a fake? The majority of those here aren't impressionable private pilots, but folks who by and large are pretty happy with their lives and choices...I am for one. You don't see me going to cubiclemonkey.com tormenting you as you regail your fellow monkeys with tales of adversity and triumph over the Xerox machine, water cooler and that dreadful coffee your tightwad boss (who likely views you as a quitter) buys.

You can't even get bitter resentment right...what happened to getting back in the game? Was that some toddler-like pityfest or did the Xerox machine eat your tie that day?

You are a virtual cornucopia of material...keep it up!

"The success stories of today will be the hard luck cases of tomorrow"
"The path to a successful airline career leads to the destruction of everything else"

You need a new crystal ball....

After reading these posts I feel that Skyhigh sounds really depressed. I live in New Mexico and just talked to an older couple that moved here from the Seattle area. They said they moved out of that area because the depression is so bad and the sun never shines. Maybe all skyhigh needs is to move to different place were the clouds don't hang so low.

OH the irony! The thing that he's holding onto the most is the thing that's holding him back!

Good luck!
 

Perhaps I'm an outcast anymore.
Just typing for myself here.
I'm the little kid who grew up on a farm, lived, ate, slept and dreamed nothing but flying. The kid whose eyes popped out of his sockets when he saw his first Boeing up close.
So far, my aviation career (small as it is) of 20yrs, has seen many pro's and con's. I've had to fly with moron's who had no business in a cockpit, and I've flown with individuals that were far better than I will ever attain. Individuals that I can only pray to aspire to half of their talent.
I've taken massive pay cuts, and yet find that when I take 2 steps back, I always end up (in time) 5 steps forward.
I've lost very dear friends, who's lives ended far too soon.
I've also made friends that changed my life forever.
But, I'm still that little kid who is standing at the fence of a corn field, watching the crop duster in absolute awe.
Recently, I noticed a grandpa and his grandson standing at that fence.
I was able to allow them on board and I watched that 5 yr old kid with his eyes so wide, they almost popped out of his sockets.
You must possess a die hard love for this profession, otherwise your going to end up very bitter, crotchedy and crabby.
Did I think of telling that 5yr old little boy to forget this and go do something else? Never even crossed my mind.
We all have our own paths to follow in this business, but I think we have to take a hard look at ourselves and see if that undieing passion is there.
For SkyHigh, my hopes are that you share this passion and that you won't allow a tough time to change your thoughts permanently.
If you plan to go your seperate way, then I think we all wish you the best of luck in your future.
However, my forum friend, if you need a charge to relight that passion, might I suggest a little vacation to Durango, Colorado. Hop in a glider, and spend an hour soaring over the rockies. Whenever I get down, that spools me right back into my seat!
My views of the sunsets from FL410 do a pretty good job as well.

God speed and good luck to you. :)

That's well said FMI...regardless of whatever happens to the industry there's always something intrinsic, personal, and magical to what we do. Perhaps we are a privileged few?

I live near Durango Colorado and the glider rides really are fun. They also have alot of great breweries in Durango.

For some reason I thought he was living in a larger area than a town of just 15,000.

you can afford a vacation and glider rides...must be nice

Disagree. It is entirely possible to deal with this occupation purely as a job; a way of paying bills. Not a lifelong love, but merely an activity to put food on the table and keep a roof over my head.

If your outside interests include aviation, more power to you. Personally if I never see an airplane or airport while I'm on days off or vacation it's better. My job will never define me.

Maybe I went wrong somewhere (Military, Airlines), but this became a chore pretty rapidly. I'm too old, too stupid, and not interested or motivated to do anything else.

Wow - 10 pages! I normally don't spend the time reading page after page of the same thread, but this one's got me hooked. I'm an ATC'er and a lot of what's been posted on here, is similar to the varying sentiments we non-flyers have.

• I used to love my job, but now I can't stand it - all thanks to management. I have a countdown clock that says I only have 2541 more days until I can retire - never too early to start thinking about it...
• There are many controllers who have always viewed our job as just a job and nothing more.
• There are people like me, bordering on geek, that grew up in or around aviation, and have or had a lot of passion about it.
• Management has decided safety can be marginalized and economized, so their big focus is no longer about maintaining the world's best atc system. Rather, it is "how cheap can we make it, and if we make it cheap enough, we can sell it to a private company and then go work for them afterwards."
• New recruits in OKC are being told not to apply for financial assistance while they are in training, despite only being payed $8/hr with little or no per diem, because the state of OK is going after the FAA for all of the applications for $ assistance that they're having to pay. I went through in 1989 and was paid enough to live on, so I could spend all of my time studying and passing the course, like these kids should be doing, and not standing in a welfare line. That my folks, is a crime.
• If they pass, they will be paid at least 1/3 less than a person hired one or two years ago. This ought to make the Republicans REAL happy. (insert "you get what you pay for" here)
• The public has no real concept of what our career is like. Lousy hours, lousy bosses, decrepit workplaces, no recognition you're even an employee, save for the paycheck that comes every 2 weeks - that's it. Sure, I get to go home every night, after my wife and kids have gone to bed. Then I'm back at work the next day, before my kids are up. Might be days before I see them. Rinse, Repeat for 18 years now. Forget vacations with "normal" people like your family. Your kids are off in July, but you won't be. (big ax to grind here, sorry)
• Despite all of the gloom above, the actual job is fun. But it's buried so deep in all of the bs, it's hard to see it anymore. If only it weren't for all of the idiots;)

Love of flying
 

It is the love of flying that hold many in difficult situations.

To those who value life, home, family, success and financial security I would not recommend aviation, often it is a sirens song to loss and hardship.

Most dreams are not in our overall best interest. There is a better life out there. A better investment of our resources and time.


Skyhigh

Completely beside the point.
 

Yes, but it hasn't always been the case.
It has taken a lot of time and dedication.. not without its price.

Have you ever considered that your dream to never leave Seattle and only work for Alaska is what's holding you back?

Holding
 

It might be keeping me from an airline career but holding me to what is most precious in life. If you wish to live alone in a strange and lifeless place then why don't you move to Baltimore?

SkyHigh

Ive been to Baltimore and it's not any worse than rainy, depressing Seattle.

Baltimore
 

To someone who is from Baltimore I am sure that it is great. My home is in the Pacific Northwest. The people and places I value are there as well.

Many people throw away a lot of what I feel makes life worth living in pursuit of a flying career. Perhaps it is worth it to them. It isn't worth it to me to trade all that I have for a 20 year old jet, 60K per year and a two bedroom apartment in Baltimore, Newark or Los Angeles. Yuk... :eek:

SkyHigh

Everybody is unique and has a different definition on what we cherish in our life. I find it interesting that everbody has a different take on life. Some people always like being on the move, while their are some people who never like to leave their small town.

True Enough
 

True enough. I have never been interested in leaving the pacific northwest for any reason. I love flying but cherish my home, friends and family more. Over the years I have lived in many other places to advance my career however each time it was with the goal of returning home.

If I were to accept a position with a company that would force me to permanently move then it would not be acceptable to me. It is one of my highest beliefs that in order to build a full and accomplished life one needs to put down roots while still young enough to grow something of value.

I have no interest in jobs that either will not help me advance towards a position with Alaska Airlines or does not at least have a base in the Pacific Northwest.


SkyHigh

Since we now know why you are not flying professionally anymore, can you give the airline pilot career "bashing career" a break?
As a military guy who moved around a bit, or a businessman like my Dad, I have a lot of roots. Not in the geography though. In the family and friends.
It is transportable.

Good point Salty. Life is about choices, be comfortable once you make one and move ahead. Roots are transportable if you are used to it. I always remind myself that I could have been born in a Third World country and didn't have all these hard choices to pick from in regards to life.

Most people that I know enjoy moving away from the place they were born to start a new life. I would hate the idea of living in one place my whole life. I enjoy living in new places and meeting new people. Growing up in a small town I got tired of being around the same thing day in and day out.

Sky -

As someone who was born, grew up, went to college, and lived in Seattle for 22 years, I certainly sympathize with your interest in staying in the PNW.

The greatest thing to happen in my life, though, was joining the USAF and being FORCED to leave the Puget Sound area. If that hadn't happened, I seriously never would have left. I loved the place like you do.

The Air Force plunked me down in some areas of the country (and the world) that I never would have otherwise been to. It also allowed me to see what living in those other areas of the country were like.

Guess what -- I realized that although the PNW is a great spot, it's not the end-all, be-all of places to live. Yes, it's beautiful, and all the things I loved about it when I lived there I still love today. But, the fact is that there are some things about that place that really stink in comparison to other places I've lived in the US. Of course, I'd never have known that if I stayed there my whole life and didn't experience the rest of the US (and world).

I may end up back there when my military career is over, but I may not. Like you, I entertain thoughts of working for Alaska someday among the many visions of my future I have.

I guess my point is that it's funny that you're so hard-over-rudder on not leaving the PNW, as that's the one thing that is most significantly holding up your dream of returning to flying professionally.

I used to be that way about the area, too...but today I feel much less ignorant.

Moving
 

I have lived in many places all over the west coast and Alaska. From LA to the Alaskan bush. Twelve moves in 16 years. At some point it was time to go home. At 36 and with my career in the dumpster I didn't have another decade to waste on yet another roll of the dice. My family and I were tired of moving every few years. We needed to go home, dig in and earn some real money.

I reached a point where the risk wasn't worth the sacrifice anymore. The prospective gain wasn't worth it either. Flying is great but is simply wasn't worth wasting anymore days on reserve in a strange town, facing another furlough or spending another 8 years in the right seat. By my age (36) I should have been established with a career destination airline.

I knew that by being laid off prior to upgrade that my career was over. I did not have enough years left to waste and by the time the industry started hiring again I would be too old to care anymore. It is one of my deepest held beliefs that one must invest themselves in a community in order to reap the benefits of home ownership and life advancement.

Moving every few years costs a huge amount money and robs you of gaining ground on paying off your home, cars and reaching the point where you can start to finally save money and afford your wife and kids. What good is it to reach the left seat of a 737 at 55? On reserve, on the move and in the right seat for most of your career. No thanks, not interested.

Skyhigh

SkyHigh for the tenth time: if you had kept flying and went to SWA you'd be OAK based halfway up the FO list by now having a very easy on-line one leg commute to work.

Swa
 

I suppose that would have been true, however if the CEO of SWA were to call me today with that offer I would still have to decline. Nothing against SWA. I just don't like the rush, rush, up and down 8 leg days. I hated that stuff at Horizon Air.

SkyHigh

Well when you find a SWA pairing with 8 legs in one day I'll pay more attention.

Swa
 

I don't know any SWA guys to ask however, I have seen those guys in the airport and they are always moving at a high rate of speed. I am sure that it is a fine company and that it is great to work there.

I however have two needs from any career level flying job. It must help in some way to getting on with Alaska Airlines or have a Seattle base. SWA offers neither.

SkyHigh

The most they do, according to my six friends that fly for them, is 7 legs. A lot in one day but they do not do that everyday. I would move at a high rate of speed if it meant that I got a great wage and was building more equity in the company's bottom line and more efficiency in their schedule.

Swa
 

Sounds like a future SWA guy to me.

SkyHigh

So are you gonna drop your career of "airline pilot bashing"? Your comment at the end of your posts are false except to you and your personal choices.

Skyhigh,

Sure, if I can get the position but if not, I am open to other options as well; inside and outside the airlines too. What the last 11 years in the Marine Corps has taught me is to keep options open, weigh your alternative and then pick the best course of action. Basically, there is no perfect anything out there. Life is full of tradeoffs and I must be willing to accept this and then move forward. So, lets see what life gives me for the next step?

BTW...what do you do now for a living? Not trying to be sarcastic but curious. I also realize that life is more than just doing what you love but it is nice if you can make an honest wage doing it.

Airline Bashing
 

I think that an airline career is a very poor choice. You might have survived the losses intact however that doesnt mean that a kid who signs on the dotted line today to originate an airline career will even do half as well as your generation.

The future has little to offer then next generation and that is to whom I address.

SkyHigh

Doing now
 

Almost 4 years ago my airline career lead my family and I to a two bedroom apartment and $1300 per month on unemployment.

Since then I have been a real estate investor and developer. Life is much better now.

SkyHigh