I wonder if Skybus was charged for that water cannon salute...

 

Why do you even care? Too much time on your hands?

 

Who peed in your Cheerios, man?

 

This is exactly who should be held accountable, don't take the damn job, if they can't get anyone to fly they will have to increase the wages to attract qualified flight crews.

stinsonjr I'd like a crack at this. The problem here is the underlying myth that Southwest pilots are well paid. The truth is they are well paid by todays standards because they lowered todays standards. Don't get me wrong here, I'd work for southwest in a minute because from what I know its a great company to work for. That being said when the other "major airlines" had to lower the pilots wages to compete Southwest wages suddenly rose to the top.

This is the problem with allowing forgein control airlines to operate here in the states. It's going to lower the bar further and is a classic example of history repeating itself. This to me is the frustrating part about the whole issue. People are putting the blinders on for immediate self gratification.

I don't even know where to find a wage qoute from the mid 1990's maybe some of the more "experienced pilots" can jump in here but I'd say that the major airlines used to pay much better than Southwest does today. Look at the pilots flying boxes, making more than anybody for the hour.

Thats my take, I am no expert and would be willing to hear a more educated answer to the lads question.

 

You are exactly right about SWA. Pre 9/11 I was making 240/hr at a legacy. Double pay for JA. This was for the narrow bodies. In 1985 SWA pay was so bad that I didnt apply, plus there was that stupid requirement for the 737 type. Folks can ***** about the LCC's, and now the Ultra LCC's, but in terms of impact on pay, you can't beat the RJ when it comes to bringin' down the house. Don't blame the guys, blame the management teams for thinking this was profitable, blame the unions, especially ALPA for not merging seniority lists to protect the profession.

 

Thank you for your reply. I understand where you are coming from. One last follow up, and it will require SWA people - how did the company stock (if any) that you recieved in the 80's (when you were paid badly) compensate you? This speaks to my question of being entreprenuars.

Additionally, what is needed to stop this? I appreciate what ALPA has done historically, but are they doing the job now? Do they view themselves as an association of professionals, or do they view themselves as a union. I would submit that they need to view themselves as a union (clarity of purpose can do wonders for results). It seems as if ALPA is not militant enough. Additionally, it seems as if ALPA members will do certain things (like check SCAB lists, complain about GoJets, talk about non-union members tearing down the industry) but it also seems as if many of these same members leave it at that. If ALPA is truly going to be an effective and focused organization, they need all members pulling their oar. I am certain that many here are not the ones that are apathetic members...but this also represents a small minority of ALPA membership.

Just curious as to what it will take to solve the problem, and what role ALPA needs to play in this solution. Thank you all.

 

I am starting to think that the unions in general are pretty self serving. I don't blame the pilots that got caught up in it, I blame the ones that can make a difference and not take jobs at start ups that are offering sub-standard wages like Skybus.

 

The same can be said of ups. current capt pay is almost exactly the same in inflation based dollars as 1998. Admitly F/O pay is increasing. Inflation basing the pay of the pax majors would have guys at $300 an hour. Don't forget the Capts at ups fly 747/md11s for what F/0s used make. All this while the company is making BILLIONS.

 

Some pilots did VERY well with the stock options. Others did ok. It was a highly variable scheme with different strike prices depending when you were hired. If you were part of the original grant I believe it more than made up for the low pay. The original grant was 10,000 options with a market strike price. After 4 splits the strike was $3.95 and you had 40,000 options.

I have a friend who excercised every option he had when the stock was at $32/share. He made $600,000 that year between salary and options. He continued to get more options for several years after this. In all I'd estimate he made $800,000-$900,000 from the options over about a 10 year period.

S.B.

 

I would take the chance on a below market wage for a deal like that...but I have started and sold two companies so I am comfortable with risk. Would I do this with SKYBUS, probably not. VA...maybe, simply because Richard Branson IS calling the shots in some way, if for no other reason than he will not see the Virgin brand diminished in some way.

Next Question: How did the Virgin Atlantic pilot group do in terms of initial compensation, and how are they now that the airline is a success? This may be indicative of how VA pilots will fare...maybe.