Boeing’s Fatal Mistake
10-27-2020, 09:11 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Sofa Stress Tester
Posts: 614
More Boeing Blunders?
Boeing’s debacle with the 73 Max has been well debated, but I’m afraid that was only a single issue as more are coming to light. The 2nd may as well been the shutting down the 75 line in lieu of the 73 Max 9. Next up was the blown Boeing / Embraer deal which would have given them instant access to a A220 competitor and the future...
The next possible frontier would be the 50 seat replacement project that Embraer is studying, again did Boeing blow it?
Air Transat A321LR (Montreal - Athens, Greece)
Embraer New Turboprop project
SWA flirts with A220
The next possible frontier would be the 50 seat replacement project that Embraer is studying, again did Boeing blow it?
Air Transat A321LR (Montreal - Athens, Greece)
Embraer New Turboprop project
SWA flirts with A220
Last edited by Ziggy; 10-27-2020 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Title change
10-27-2020, 10:04 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 407
Originally Posted by Ziggy
Boeing’s debacle with the 73 Max has been well debated, but I’m afraid that was only a single issue as more are coming to light. The 2nd may as well been the shutting down the 75 line in lieu of the 73 Max 9. Next up was the blown Boeing / Embraer deal which would have given them instant access to a A220 competitor and the future...
The next possible frontier would be the 50 seat replacement project that Embraer is studying, again did Boeing blow it?
Air Transat A321LR (Montreal - Athens, Greece)
Embraer New Turboprop project
SWA flirts with A220
The next possible frontier would be the 50 seat replacement project that Embraer is studying, again did Boeing blow it?
Air Transat A321LR (Montreal - Athens, Greece)
Embraer New Turboprop project
SWA flirts with A220
1. A321XLR - same thought process as the max. Revamping an old design. Most 757 drivers will tell you the XLR is not true 757 replacement. Boeing just announced their plans for a clean sheet true 757 replacement. It will have better fuel/perf numbers compared to the 321XLR.
2. Embraer - They backed out of this because of the cash hemorrhage from the max + Covid. They may have lost out, but I’m not so sure a 50 seat turbo prop is lucrative enough to warrant market share from Boeing. Airbus already owns ATR and Boeing never cared before.
3. SWA - Airlines will say and do whatever they can to whipsaw the manufacturers. I’m guessing SWA MANAGEMENT (not pilots) doesn’t actually want to add the complexity and additional cost of adding another narrowbody fleet type resulting in similar operating costs. They’re trying to see how much of a discount they can really squeeze Boeing for on more Max’s.
10-27-2020, 10:08 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 407
Originally Posted by firefighterplt
Don’t forget the military and space side of the shop...
They can’t seem to deliver an airplane that doesn’t have rags and wrenches stuffed in the tanks.
They can’t seem to deliver an airplane that doesn’t have rags and wrenches stuffed in the tanks.
10-27-2020, 10:11 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 399
Originally Posted by ElCaribe
That is true; however Uncle Sam is not going to buy foreign airplanes and Boeing knows it.
Company needs to get back to its roots, IMO.
10-27-2020, 11:26 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Sofa Stress Tester
Posts: 614
Originally Posted by ElCaribe
Maybe, maybe not.
1. A321XLR - same thought process as the max. Revamping an old design. Most 757 drivers will tell you the XLR is not true 757 replacement. Boeing just announced their plans for a clean sheet true 757 replacement. It will have better fuel/perf numbers compared to the 321XLR.
2. Embraer - They backed out of this because of the cash hemorrhage from the max + Covid. They may have lost out, but I’m not so sure a 50 seat turbo prop is lucrative enough to warrant market share from Boeing. Airbus already owns ATR and Boeing never cared before.
3. SWA - Airlines will say and do whatever they can to whipsaw the manufacturers. I’m guessing SWA MANAGEMENT (not pilots) doesn’t actually want to add the complexity and additional cost of adding another narrowbody fleet type resulting in similar operating costs. They’re trying to see how much of a discount they can really squeeze Boeing for on more Max’s.
1. A321XLR - same thought process as the max. Revamping an old design. Most 757 drivers will tell you the XLR is not true 757 replacement. Boeing just announced their plans for a clean sheet true 757 replacement. It will have better fuel/perf numbers compared to the 321XLR.
2. Embraer - They backed out of this because of the cash hemorrhage from the max + Covid. They may have lost out, but I’m not so sure a 50 seat turbo prop is lucrative enough to warrant market share from Boeing. Airbus already owns ATR and Boeing never cared before.
3. SWA - Airlines will say and do whatever they can to whipsaw the manufacturers. I’m guessing SWA MANAGEMENT (not pilots) doesn’t actually want to add the complexity and additional cost of adding another narrowbody fleet type resulting in similar operating costs. They’re trying to see how much of a discount they can really squeeze Boeing for on more Max’s.
True, Boeing did back out of the Embraer deal due to cash. But that still leaves them without a A220 competitor. But we’ll have to see how this plays out in the long run. The real question is how much did Boeing leave on the table when they decided not to get into the regional game. And I would think that Boeing’s original perspective to joint with Embraer in the first place signaled that they should have. But again, We’ll see.
10-27-2020, 11:36 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,948
Originally Posted by Ziggy
While I would agree that the A321XLR is not a exact 75 replacement, I would tend to believe it’s close enough to warrant Airlines to start their orders and United has done just that. The last I’ve heard was that Boeing was shelving their plans for their “middle market aircraft” which I believed to be the 75 replacement. I don’t know if it’s due to the Max’s needs for their undivided attention.
True, Boeing did back out of the Embraer deal due to cash. But that still leaves them without a A220 competitor. But we’ll have to see how this plays out in the long run. The real question is how much did Boeing leave on the table when they decided not to get into the regional game. And I would think that Boeing’s original perspective to joint with Embraer in the first place signaled that they should have. But again, We’ll see.
True, Boeing did back out of the Embraer deal due to cash. But that still leaves them without a A220 competitor. But we’ll have to see how this plays out in the long run. The real question is how much did Boeing leave on the table when they decided not to get into the regional game. And I would think that Boeing’s original perspective to joint with Embraer in the first place signaled that they should have. But again, We’ll see.
It’s so bizarre to me that we have so many major players in our economy who rabidly avoid actually doing the real work and would rather just broker for others. (Uber/Lyft, some majors with their JV’s, all majors with their regionals...)
10-27-2020, 11:36 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 407
Originally Posted by Ziggy
While I would agree that the A321XLR is not a exact 75 replacement, I would tend to believe it’s close enough to warrant Airlines to start their orders and United has done just that. The last I’ve heard was that Boeing was shelving their plans for their “middle market aircraft” which I believed to be the 75 replacement. I don’t know if it’s due to the Max’s needs for their undivided attention.
True, Boeing did back out of the Embraer deal due to cash. But that still leaves them without a A220 competitor. But we’ll have to see how this plays out in the long run. The real question is how much did Boeing leave on the table when they decided not to get into the regional game. And I would think that Boeing’s original perspective to joint with Embraer in the first place signaled that they should have. But again, We’ll see.
True, Boeing did back out of the Embraer deal due to cash. But that still leaves them without a A220 competitor. But we’ll have to see how this plays out in the long run. The real question is how much did Boeing leave on the table when they decided not to get into the regional game. And I would think that Boeing’s original perspective to joint with Embraer in the first place signaled that they should have. But again, We’ll see.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-discussing-new-plane-as-it-starts-to-emerge-from-737-max-crisis-11603297986
https://airwaysmag.com/industry/boeing/boeing-considers-new-nma-airplane/
10-27-2020, 11:55 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,419
Originally Posted by ElCaribe
Maybe, maybe not.
1. A321XLR - same thought process as the max. Revamping an old design. Most 757 drivers will tell you the XLR is not true 757 replacement. Boeing just announced their plans for a clean sheet true 757 replacement. It will have better fuel/perf numbers compared to the 321XLR..
1. A321XLR - same thought process as the max. Revamping an old design. Most 757 drivers will tell you the XLR is not true 757 replacement. Boeing just announced their plans for a clean sheet true 757 replacement. It will have better fuel/perf numbers compared to the 321XLR..
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
