Pans Ops Question ?
06-19-2007 | 01:19 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Line Holder
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From: USMC/USAF/GIV CAPT
Pans Ops Question ?
Fairly simple; but complicated question.
As they say in Europe, whilst conducting either a VOR or ILS
procedure turn in the europe theatre. How long should you
proceed outbound on the the procedure turn before you turn
inbound ?
If anyone knows a reference in which we can obtain a written
regulations that would be nice. We have been searching all night
on the internet with no avail.
Thanx,
Jetsnake
As they say in Europe, whilst conducting either a VOR or ILS
procedure turn in the europe theatre. How long should you
proceed outbound on the the procedure turn before you turn
inbound ?
If anyone knows a reference in which we can obtain a written
regulations that would be nice. We have been searching all night
on the internet with no avail.
Thanx,
Jetsnake
06-19-2007 | 07:32 PM
#2
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 227
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From: B737/FO
Jet,
I used to fly GIVs in Germany. I can't reference PANS-OPS, but Chapter 18 of AFI 11-217, Vol 1, does give some excellent guidance on ICAO and PANS-OPS/SARPS, and how procedures differ from FAA procedures.
Technically, there are no procedure turns in ICAO--just reversal maneuvers. They are designed to be flown exactly as depicted (like procedure tracks). Reversals may be defined by crossing radial, DME, or timing to remain w/in a certain distance. So the short answer of when to turn inbound is "it depends".
I used to fly GIVs in Germany. I can't reference PANS-OPS, but Chapter 18 of AFI 11-217, Vol 1, does give some excellent guidance on ICAO and PANS-OPS/SARPS, and how procedures differ from FAA procedures.
Technically, there are no procedure turns in ICAO--just reversal maneuvers. They are designed to be flown exactly as depicted (like procedure tracks). Reversals may be defined by crossing radial, DME, or timing to remain w/in a certain distance. So the short answer of when to turn inbound is "it depends".
06-20-2007 | 01:26 PM
#4
Ben Salley
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 924
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From: Left
Fairly simple; but complicated question.
As they say in Europe, whilst conducting either a VOR or ILS
procedure turn in the europe theatre. How long should you
proceed outbound on the the procedure turn before you turn
inbound ?
If anyone knows a reference in which we can obtain a written
regulations that would be nice. We have been searching all night
on the internet with no avail.
As they say in Europe, whilst conducting either a VOR or ILS
procedure turn in the europe theatre. How long should you
proceed outbound on the the procedure turn before you turn
inbound ?
If anyone knows a reference in which we can obtain a written
regulations that would be nice. We have been searching all night
on the internet with no avail.
06-21-2007 | 06:23 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Left Seat, Toyota Tacoma
P.S. I'm a military guy who has flown a ton of international stuff, so maybe you shouldn't ask me cause apparently "all the time" I screwed it up.
06-21-2007 | 06:50 PM
#6
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From: ERJ CAPT
Pan-Ops procedures are available thru ICAO. ICAO publishes a number of documents on procedures. Similar to FAA with their Advisory Circulars, Orders, and Publications.
I don't recall the Pub on or flight procedures but the information is available at www.icao.org for purchase. Unforturnately for this very reason you will have a very difficult time finding the info free on the web. It appears, to me, that ICAO has been very successful in preventing these documents from proliferating the internet.
The next time you have a long overnight in CYUL stop by and pick up their pubs at the headquarters.
Onfinal
I don't recall the Pub on or flight procedures but the information is available at www.icao.org for purchase. Unforturnately for this very reason you will have a very difficult time finding the info free on the web. It appears, to me, that ICAO has been very successful in preventing these documents from proliferating the internet.
The next time you have a long overnight in CYUL stop by and pick up their pubs at the headquarters.
Onfinal
06-21-2007 | 07:28 PM
#7
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From: I was acquired, Not Hired
I'll put down my drink and throw my two cents in.....
Since "procedure turn" was mentioned, as opposed to Base turns or racetrack procedures, you are given two choices:
1. 45/180 procedure turn. Fly outbound from the FAF for 1 to 3 minutes, THENCE, turn 45 degrees to the procedure turn side. Timing is used to determine the duration of the 45 degree segment. Cat A/B: 1 minute & Cat C/D/E: 1 min 15 seconds.
I presume the GIV is a Cat C aircraft.
2. 80/260 procedure turn only notates 1 to 3 minutes outbound from the FAF before making a turn. The 80/260 procedure is a constantly turning procedure which doesn't use timing, only compass headings.
Flight Procedures DOC 8168 PART III Approach Procedures PANC Ops
Semper Fi, Jetsnake.
And now back to your regularly scheduled program.... Drinks -R- Us
Since "procedure turn" was mentioned, as opposed to Base turns or racetrack procedures, you are given two choices:
1. 45/180 procedure turn. Fly outbound from the FAF for 1 to 3 minutes, THENCE, turn 45 degrees to the procedure turn side. Timing is used to determine the duration of the 45 degree segment. Cat A/B: 1 minute & Cat C/D/E: 1 min 15 seconds.
I presume the GIV is a Cat C aircraft.
2. 80/260 procedure turn only notates 1 to 3 minutes outbound from the FAF before making a turn. The 80/260 procedure is a constantly turning procedure which doesn't use timing, only compass headings.
Flight Procedures DOC 8168 PART III Approach Procedures PANC Ops
Semper Fi, Jetsnake.
And now back to your regularly scheduled program.... Drinks -R- Us
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