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Originally Posted by new guy
(Post 3561779)
I got my CJO and start 9 January at ATI for my first job in commercial aviation.
So let me tell you instead, how in debt I am from this venture: Cessna 150 bought before 1 hour of airplane training: $43500 CSEL/CMEL/instruments 141 training: $36400 Petrol: $2604 Insurance: $1300 (should be partially refunded) Profits from selling plane: $3600 Resume review: $125 Emerald coast interview prep: $400 Raven airline app review (irony not lost on me): $300 Logbook software: $300+ and 3 different ones tried. Still not sure if I like what I got. Checkrides: $1900 ATP-CTP: $3999 ATP written and study software: $225 Starting off at a home based cargo airline I never dreamed I'd get for my first venture into this profession. Pretty damn priceless. |
Originally Posted by new guy
(Post 3561779)
I got my CJO and start 9 January at ATI for my first job in commercial aviation.
So let me tell you instead, how in debt I am from this venture: Cessna 150 bought before 1 hour of airplane training: $43500 CSEL/CMEL/instruments 141 training: $36400 Petrol: $2604 Insurance: $1300 (should be partially refunded) Profits from selling plane: $3600 Resume review: $125 Emerald coast interview prep: $400 Raven airline app review (irony not lost on me): $300 Logbook software: $300+ and 3 different ones tried. Still not sure if I like what I got. Checkrides: $1900 ATP-CTP: $3999 ATP written and study software: $225 Starting off at a home based cargo airline I never dreamed I'd get for my first venture into this profession. Pretty damn priceless. |
Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
(Post 3569989)
Sorry to pull this up from weeks ago, but good god how times have changed! From piston single to 767. Holy $h!t. Good for you man! Nicely done. Very nicely done.
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Originally Posted by tommy2times
(Post 3570287)
Yeah making the Skippers job a total nightmare good for em though.
The least pleasant to fly with are the 10 year FOs that are totally burnt out and checked out. Of course, if the poop hits the fan I think we both know who we’d want sitting across from us. Sorry for the thread drift. |
Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
(Post 3570505)
You can’t blame the guy and we would have done the same thing if we had the opportunity. Personally, as long as the guy is pleasant and has a good attitude, I don’t mind the inexperience.
The least pleasant to fly with are the 10 year FOs that are totally burnt out and checked out. Of course, if the poop hits the fan I think we both know who we’d want sitting across from us. Sorry for the thread drift. |
A little late to the party, but if anyone's interested in some ACMI numbers:
Kalitta 747-400 CA, Year 4/5 185 days on duty, including 10 OT days 173 nights away from home, 14 vacation days used 858 hours flown / 1255 hours credit Straight credit hours: $311,000 Total cash including per diem & 6% DC: $344,000 It's a long way from the poor house, but there are plenty of reasons attrition is driving all of the movement around here. New Guy a few posts up isn't the only one making the best of this segment of the business to build the resume and the pocketbook until something better calls. |
FedEx New Hire
Hired in the summer.
Gross......... $19,100 Net............ $16,900 401k.......... $400 Crash Pad... $2500- Block: 40 hours Training: 40 days worked (~4-month footprint, BI through LOE) Post-training: 23 days worked Total days worked: 63 Total days off: 70 Holidays off: Thanksgiving & Christmas |
European Flag Carrier 4th year Airbus FO
1.5 first months furloughed (21 months total without pay) 1.5 months leave of absence 647h block 52 700$ gross (+couple thousand per diem) 23$ hourly pay Grinded in the summer while finishing a degree Some turboprop flying on the side not included Excited for the new CBA and 5th year 31$ hourly In other news, looking to sell my left nut for Permanent Residency (provided I can keep my Class 1). |
Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
(Post 3570505)
Of course, if the poop hits the fan I think we both know who we’d want sitting across from us.
Yes, plenty of experienced guys have made mistakes. |
Originally Posted by thomaskies
(Post 3571898)
European Flag Carrier 4th year Airbus FO
1.5 first months furloughed (21 months total without pay) 1.5 months leave of absence 647h block 52 700$ gross (+couple thousand per diem) 23$ hourly pay Grinded in the summer while finishing a degree Some turboprop flying on the side not included Excited for the new CBA and 5th year 31$ hourly In other news, looking to sell my left nut for Permanent Residency (provided I can keep my Class 1). |
Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 3571964)
UAL 811. Plane had just under 60,000 hours. Cockpit crew had just over that, combined.
Yes, plenty of experienced guys have made mistakes. |
Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
(Post 3572184)
I think you're thinking of a different flight. They received the Secretary's Award for that one.
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Originally Posted by thomaskies
(Post 3571898)
European Flag Carrier 4th year Airbus FO
1.5 first months furloughed (21 months total without pay) 1.5 months leave of absence 647h block 52 700$ gross (+couple thousand per diem) 23$ hourly pay Grinded in the summer while finishing a degree Some turboprop flying on the side not included Excited for the new CBA and 5th year 31$ hourly In other news, looking to sell my left nut for Permanent Residency (provided I can keep my Class 1). |
Helicopter utility pilot
I'll chime in from the neglected step-child side of the aviation industry. 135/133 (longline) utility/firefighting helicopter work. 15+ years.
$170,000 base pay $11,700 flight + bonus pay $1900 per diem $5000 IRA 3% match $188,600 Total gross compensation Slow fire year so only about 300 hours flown. Schedule is terrible when it exists at all, work 200+ days a year usually. Flying can be good fun but still question my career choices. Mostly due to losing a few good friends to crashes. An impossible task to improve the safety of these contraptions to anywhere near 121 safety. I'm glad y'all keep pushing for better pay and QoL because it has slowly forced our industry to adjust too. |
Originally Posted by TheBlueGuy
(Post 3573299)
I'll chime in from the neglected step-child side of the aviation industry. 135/133 (longline) utility/firefighting helicopter work. 15+ years.
$170,000 base pay $11,700 flight + bonus pay $1900 per diem $5000 IRA 3% match $188,600 Total gross compensation Slow fire year so only about 300 hours flown. Schedule is terrible when it exists at all, work 200+ days a year usually. Flying can be good fun but still question my career choices. Mostly due to losing a few good friends to crashes. An impossible task to improve the safety of these contraptions to anywhere near 121 safety. I'm glad y'all keep pushing for better pay and QoL because it has slowly forced our industry to adjust too. signed, a prior rotorhead that jumped to the 121 world. |
Originally Posted by TheBlueGuy
(Post 3573299)
I'll chime in from the neglected step-child side of the aviation industry. 135/133 (longline) utility/firefighting helicopter work. 15+ years.
$170,000 base pay $11,700 flight + bonus pay $1900 per diem $5000 IRA 3% match $188,600 Total gross compensation Slow fire year so only about 300 hours flown. Schedule is terrible when it exists at all, work 200+ days a year usually. Flying can be good fun but still question my career choices. Mostly due to losing a few good friends to crashes. An impossible task to improve the safety of these contraptions to anywhere near 121 safety. I'm glad y'all keep pushing for better pay and QoL because it has slowly forced our industry to adjust too. |
Originally Posted by TheBlueGuy
(Post 3573299)
I'll chime in from the neglected step-child side of the aviation industry. 135/133 (longline) utility/firefighting helicopter work. 15+ years.
$170,000 base pay $11,700 flight + bonus pay $1900 per diem $5000 IRA 3% match $188,600 Total gross compensation Slow fire year so only about 300 hours flown. Schedule is terrible when it exists at all, work 200+ days a year usually. Flying can be good fun but still question my career choices. Mostly due to losing a few good friends to crashes. An impossible task to improve the safety of these contraptions to anywhere near 121 safety. I'm glad y'all keep pushing for better pay and QoL because it has slowly forced our industry to adjust too. |
Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr
(Post 3573727)
As others have said, thanks for what you do for all of us. No amount of money will replace the satisfaction of an important job well done. That said, there is no shame in switching to 121 so your kids can go to the college of there choice.
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Originally Posted by TheBlueGuy
(Post 3573299)
I'll chime in from the neglected step-child side of the aviation industry. 135/133 (longline) utility/firefighting helicopter work. 15+ years.
$170,000 base pay $11,700 flight + bonus pay $1900 per diem $5000 IRA 3% match $188,600 Total gross compensation Slow fire year so only about 300 hours flown. Schedule is terrible when it exists at all, work 200+ days a year usually. Flying can be good fun but still question my career choices. Mostly due to losing a few good friends to crashes. An impossible task to improve the safety of these contraptions to anywhere near 121 safety. I'm glad y'all keep pushing for better pay and QoL because it has slowly forced our industry to adjust too. |
Originally Posted by TheBlueGuy
(Post 3573299)
I'll chime in from the neglected step-child side of the aviation industry. 135/133 (longline) utility/firefighting helicopter work. 15+ years.
$170,000 base pay $11,700 flight + bonus pay $1900 per diem $5000 IRA 3% match $188,600 Total gross compensation Slow fire year so only about 300 hours flown. Schedule is terrible when it exists at all, work 200+ days a year usually. Flying can be good fun but still question my career choices. Mostly due to losing a few good friends to crashes. An impossible task to improve the safety of these contraptions to anywhere near 121 safety. I'm glad y'all keep pushing for better pay and QoL because it has slowly forced our industry to adjust too. |
Originally Posted by TheBlueGuy
(Post 3573299)
I'll chime in from the neglected step-child side of the aviation industry. 135/133 (longline) utility/firefighting helicopter work. 15+ years.
$170,000 base pay $11,700 flight + bonus pay $1900 per diem $5000 IRA 3% match $188,600 Total gross compensation Slow fire year so only about 300 hours flown. Schedule is terrible when it exists at all, work 200+ days a year usually. Flying can be good fun but still question my career choices. Mostly due to losing a few good friends to crashes. An impossible task to improve the safety of these contraptions to anywhere near 121 safety. I'm glad y'all keep pushing for better pay and QoL because it has slowly forced our industry to adjust too. And as others have mentioned, no shame in bailing to 121...if ever there was a time to come over it's now. I for one always appreciate flying with pilots that have a different background from the norm and the experience they bring. |
Stay safe out there. You guys do extremely important but quite dangerous work, often in very austere environments. I always laugh when fellow airline pilots tell me how tough we have it. signed, a prior rotorhead that jumped to the 121 world. I spent a good chunk of my career working under part 137. I never made nearly the $ as you now do. I found it much more fulfilling than the 121 flying I currently do. I really miss it. Kinda feel like I sold my soul for a 16% DC. I’ll gladly have a boring job that pays 300k+ a year over a fun flying job that pays crap… Thanks for sharing. Interesting. Why not come on over to the 121(boring) side? As others have said, thanks for what you do for all of us. No amount of money will replace the satisfaction of an important job well done. That said, there is no shame in switching to 121 so your kids can go to the college of there choice. Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm glad some pay raises have reached the helicopter world. Just curious, what was pay like ~10 years ago? And as others have mentioned, no shame in bailing to 121...if ever there was a time to come over it's now. I for one always appreciate flying with pilots that have a different background from the norm and the experience they bring. I know fire guys who make six figures working the fire season 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and skiing the winter on unemployment. |
Originally Posted by TheBlueGuy
(Post 3574335)
Smart moves! I went the other way. Was an FO for $20k/year for a bit before seeing greener grass in rotorcraft. Whoops. Heli flying gets pretty tedious too. Lots of negative customer management and oversight at the moment and keeps getting worse.
~10 years ago I made $60-80k for the same work. Top pay I knew of back then was just under $100k. Now lots of base/1st year pay around $105-110k with pretty easy to achieve $130-140k. A big improvement but still plenty of room to grow if we're to keep anybody vibrating around in helicopters! I do think about rejoining your ranks, thanks for keeping threads like this one around and keeping the information out there! I have a side hustle tied to helicopters that is currently worth enough to keep me rooted in place or I would have tried to make the jump. If I keep reading these posts one of these years y'all will convince me! For sure there are pretty decent fire and utility jobs out there for a few lucky folks. I am happy with the money I make but I'm not skiing on unemployment at the moment haha. |
Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
(Post 3572184)
I think you're thinking of a different flight. They received the Secretary's Award for that one.
Originally Posted by JimLaheyTPS
(Post 3572251)
Yeah, not sure WTF he’s talking about, but UAL 811 is one of those flights that made it on the ground because of the experience and skill level of the pilots.
I added the comment about experienced people making mistakes as a disclaimer. But I see that could have been interpreted differently. |
Southwest 19 Year Captain
870 Block W2 $581,468 NEC $87,220 Profit Sharing $21,394 Total Compensation: $690,082 Just working the free market economy here at SWA. This was my best year. Always am a bit of a high time flyer and know a few tricks of the trade which I am always willing to share with my F/O's. It is definitely a blessing but can also be a curse if you have workaholic tendencies. |
Originally Posted by swacap
(Post 3575598)
Southwest 19 Year Captain
870 Block W2 $581,468 NEC $87,220 Profit Sharing $21,394 Total Compensation: $690,082 Just working the free market economy here at SWA. This was my best year. Always am a bit of a high time flyer and know a few tricks of the trade which I am always willing to share with my F/O's. It is definitely a blessing but can also be a curse if you have workaholic tendencies. |
Originally Posted by FXLAX
(Post 3575950)
SWA contributed $87k into your 401k?
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Originally Posted by Crockrocket95
(Post 3575955)
The IRS limit, then I bet the rest came as cash,
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Originally Posted by Crockrocket95
(Post 3575955)
The IRS limit, then I bet the rest came as cash,
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Originally Posted by swacap
(Post 3575598)
Southwest 19 Year Captain
870 Block W2 $581,468 NEC $87,220 Profit Sharing $21,394 Total Compensation: $690,082 Just working the free market economy here at SWA. This was my best year. Always am a bit of a high time flyer and know a few tricks of the trade which I am always willing to share with my F/O's. It is definitely a blessing but can also be a curse if you have workaholic tendencies. |
Originally Posted by nene
(Post 3576611)
Wow, great work. And here my SWA golfing buddies were trying to convince me that SWA needs a new contract. Imma gonna tell them, here's exhibit A, now its your turn to buy some beers!
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Originally Posted by avi8er
(Post 3576614)
do you not see the block hours? He is working like a rented mule for that money.
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Originally Posted by swacap
(Post 3576007)
You are correct.
Originally Posted by Aero1900
(Post 3576630)
870 is a lot, no doubt. I had to go back and look mine up. It was 600. Put the 870 in perspective. Amazing money, but damn....
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UPS 25yr+ 757 CPT
$514k $31k into the B plan not included 95 Block hours due to being a sim guy Prolly worked around 16.5 days a month, but several of those were less than 4 hour duty days. |
141K Total
530 Block 111K Atlas Air - 6 months 413 Block 30K United - 6 months 117 Block 208 Duty |
UPS FO Year 3
Total Compensation: 323,000
includes 2 weeks of vacation paid and about 34k DC. Days at work: 145. Reserve bidder except for peak. Hella. |
Originally Posted by Hellafo
(Post 3578997)
Total Compensation: 323,000
includes 2 weeks of vacation paid and about 34k DC. Days at work: 145. Reserve bidder except for peak. Hella. That’s great! At HAL we are being told our TA freight rates are industry leading. I wonder how many FOs made over 300k in year 3? As a +12 year CA maxed out top of pay scale you came within 5k, also reserve. There is so much more than the rate at UPS. |
Flip side of that. UPS FO 3rd/4th year pay. 90 hotel stays. 221,000 in pay and perdiem. A and B plan not included. Blocked 490.
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Originally Posted by Crockrocket95
(Post 3575955)
The IRS limit, then I bet the rest came as cash,
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Originally Posted by JohnnyR
(Post 3579099)
Flip side of that. UPS FO 3rd/4th year pay. 90 hotel stays. 221,000 in pay and perdiem. A and B plan not included. Blocked 490.
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