Secrets to Hiring at Majors
02-14-2024, 06:08 PM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2024
Posts: 16
Secrets to Hiring at Majors
I currently fly for a ULCC. I had a few questions about applying at one of the three majors, and I am sure rhe answers will be useful to many others too.
1. Where do you find out about hiring events? Is there a single place these all get posted, or a few places to watch closely?
2. Is it important or useful to join various different organizations?
3. Is it worth it paying for an application review? If so, who do you recommend?
4. Once exceeding 1000 turbine 121, is it still important to continue to grind hours?
5. Is a college degree still valuable?
Thanks everyond!
1. Where do you find out about hiring events? Is there a single place these all get posted, or a few places to watch closely?
2. Is it important or useful to join various different organizations?
3. Is it worth it paying for an application review? If so, who do you recommend?
4. Once exceeding 1000 turbine 121, is it still important to continue to grind hours?
5. Is a college degree still valuable?
Thanks everyond!
02-14-2024, 06:18 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Posts: 117
1. Where do you find out about hiring events? Is there a single place these all get posted, or a few places to watch closely?
Google the organizations OBAP, NGPA, WIA, etc and follow. More better: have a friend at your company of choice do a chief pilot meet n greet. Saves time, money, and hassle
2. Is it important or useful to join various different organizations?
YES, majors still want well rounded candidates and some volunteering gives you a thing to talk about other than slinging gear
3. Is it worth it paying for an application review? If so, who do you recommend?
Get the interview first, then worry about that
4. Once exceeding 1000 turbine 121, is it still important to continue to grind hours?
Yes, if you're still only at sub 2k-3k hours. Some think having a recent new type rating helps.
5. Is a college degree still valuable?
Depends, did you do something worthwhile instead?
Thanks everyond![/QUOTE]
Good luck! The majors have retracted and the music has stopped at some places. This year will be indicative of the next five years for this industry.
Google the organizations OBAP, NGPA, WIA, etc and follow. More better: have a friend at your company of choice do a chief pilot meet n greet. Saves time, money, and hassle
2. Is it important or useful to join various different organizations?
YES, majors still want well rounded candidates and some volunteering gives you a thing to talk about other than slinging gear
3. Is it worth it paying for an application review? If so, who do you recommend?
Get the interview first, then worry about that
4. Once exceeding 1000 turbine 121, is it still important to continue to grind hours?
Yes, if you're still only at sub 2k-3k hours. Some think having a recent new type rating helps.
5. Is a college degree still valuable?
Depends, did you do something worthwhile instead?
Thanks everyond![/QUOTE]
Good luck! The majors have retracted and the music has stopped at some places. This year will be indicative of the next five years for this industry.
02-14-2024, 06:22 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 504
Originally Posted by blueray280
I currently fly for a ULCC. I had a few questions about applying at one of the three majors, and I am sure rhe answers will be useful to many others too.
1. Where do you find out about hiring events? Is there a single place these all get posted, or a few places to watch closely?
2. Is it important or useful to join various different organizations?
3. Is it worth it paying for an application review? If so, who do you recommend?
4. Once exceeding 1000 turbine 121, is it still important to continue to grind hours?
5. Is a college degree still valuable?
Thanks everyond!
1. Where do you find out about hiring events? Is there a single place these all get posted, or a few places to watch closely?
2. Is it important or useful to join various different organizations?
3. Is it worth it paying for an application review? If so, who do you recommend?
4. Once exceeding 1000 turbine 121, is it still important to continue to grind hours?
5. Is a college degree still valuable?
Thanks everyond!
2) yes
3) yes. Emerald coast, cage Marshall, RST, career takeoff etc.
4) yes
5) yes
02-14-2024, 06:49 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 986
Originally Posted by Jdub2
1) NGPA Winter Warm Up, OBAP, WIA and maybe a couple more
2) yes
3) yes. Emerald coast, cage Marshall, RST, career takeoff etc.
4) yes
5) yes
2) yes
3) yes. Emerald coast, cage Marshall, RST, career takeoff etc.
4) yes
5) yes
02-15-2024, 05:13 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,000
The key to getting hired at a legacy (you’re already at a major) is realizing that published hiring minimums are just that.. *Minimums*. What is actually competitive will always be in flux. With Carl Icahn now playing in JetBlue’s sandbox and Spirit fighting for survival, there’s a good chance there’s going to be some very experienced pilots hitting the open market soon. By either their own choice, or… not. Combine that with reduced hiring (but still admittedly record hiring) it will mean that what is competitive today, will not be competitive tomorrow.
Just for some history: 2500-3000 total time and 500-1000 multi used to be considered competitive to go fly a turboprop with 19 passengers on it. Now, kids are complaining that 1500 and 25 multi is too hard. Not all that long ago 7-8k total time, 1000+ turbine PIC, training department or check airman experience, extensive volunteer work, a master’s degree or higher and a ton of internal recommendations was considered to be competitive to get on at a legacy. Even with those stats you still likely needed to see them at a job fair which meant being on a computer right when registration opened to try to nab a spot at a legacy table because you couldn’t just walk up to them. If registration opened at 8am, you’d better be on at 8am. If you logged on at 8:02 it was too late. The legacy career fair tickets sold out so fast it would make Taylor Swift jealous.
Now I didn’t write the above as a “back in my day” rant. I just did it for perspective of where hiring has come from, where it could head again, and how large a swing there could be in the word “competitive”. What is enough to get that call from a legacy right now? When you get an interview invite - That is the answer. If they haven’t called yet, you don’t have enough. Keep working on yourself and your resume until they do. Build more time. Upgrade if you can. Try to get into the training department or safety related position. Volunteer outside of aviation. Don’t have a college degree? Get one. Already have a degree? Get a master’s. Maybe go add a category or class rating. Go get that seaplane or glider rating you’ve always wanted.
Bottom line - Always keep adding to the resume. Don’t get to an airline’s hiring minimums and take your foot off the gas assuming that “it’s just a matter of time now”. Airlines want to see an applicant with drive and ambition. Someone who is going to fight for the position that they are applying for. That says a lot about a person, their character, and how they will perform on the job. The airlines are far less interested in someone who seems to be out to do the bare minimum and call it a day.
Good Luck!
Just for some history: 2500-3000 total time and 500-1000 multi used to be considered competitive to go fly a turboprop with 19 passengers on it. Now, kids are complaining that 1500 and 25 multi is too hard. Not all that long ago 7-8k total time, 1000+ turbine PIC, training department or check airman experience, extensive volunteer work, a master’s degree or higher and a ton of internal recommendations was considered to be competitive to get on at a legacy. Even with those stats you still likely needed to see them at a job fair which meant being on a computer right when registration opened to try to nab a spot at a legacy table because you couldn’t just walk up to them. If registration opened at 8am, you’d better be on at 8am. If you logged on at 8:02 it was too late. The legacy career fair tickets sold out so fast it would make Taylor Swift jealous.
Now I didn’t write the above as a “back in my day” rant. I just did it for perspective of where hiring has come from, where it could head again, and how large a swing there could be in the word “competitive”. What is enough to get that call from a legacy right now? When you get an interview invite - That is the answer. If they haven’t called yet, you don’t have enough. Keep working on yourself and your resume until they do. Build more time. Upgrade if you can. Try to get into the training department or safety related position. Volunteer outside of aviation. Don’t have a college degree? Get one. Already have a degree? Get a master’s. Maybe go add a category or class rating. Go get that seaplane or glider rating you’ve always wanted.
Bottom line - Always keep adding to the resume. Don’t get to an airline’s hiring minimums and take your foot off the gas assuming that “it’s just a matter of time now”. Airlines want to see an applicant with drive and ambition. Someone who is going to fight for the position that they are applying for. That says a lot about a person, their character, and how they will perform on the job. The airlines are far less interested in someone who seems to be out to do the bare minimum and call it a day.
Good Luck!
02-15-2024, 05:45 AM
#9
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,796
Originally Posted by TOGALOCK
The key to getting hired at a legacy (you’re already at a major) is realizing that published hiring minimums are just that.. *Minimums*. What is actually competitive will always be in flux. With Carl Icahn now playing in JetBlue’s sandbox and Spirit fighting for survival, there’s a good chance there’s going to be some very experienced pilots hitting the open market soon. By either their own choice, or… not. Combine that with reduced hiring (but still admittedly record hiring) it will mean that what is competitive today, will not be competitive tomorrow.
Just for some history: 2500-3000 total time and 500-1000 multi used to be considered competitive to go fly a turboprop with 19 passengers on it. Now, kids are complaining that 1500 and 25 multi is too hard. Not all that long ago 7-8k total time, 1000+ turbine PIC, training department or check airman experience, extensive volunteer work, a master’s degree or higher and a ton of internal recommendations was considered to be competitive to get on at a legacy. Even with those stats you still likely needed to see them at a job fair which meant being on a computer right when registration opened to try to nab a spot at a legacy table because you couldn’t just walk up to them. If registration opened at 8am, you’d better be on at 8am. If you logged on at 8:02 it was too late. The legacy career fair tickets sold out so fast it would make Taylor Swift jealous.
Now I didn’t write the above as a “back in my day” rant. I just did it for perspective of where hiring has come from, where it could head again, and how large a swing there could be in the word “competitive”. What is enough to get that call from a legacy right now? When you get an interview invite - That is the answer. If they haven’t called yet, you don’t have enough. Keep working on yourself and your resume until they do. Build more time. Upgrade if you can. Try to get into the training department or safety related position. Volunteer outside of aviation. Don’t have a college degree? Get one. Already have a degree? Get a master’s. Maybe go add a category or class rating. Go get that seaplane or glider rating you’ve always wanted.
Bottom line - Always keep adding to the resume. Don’t get to an airline’s hiring minimums and take your foot off the gas assuming that “it’s just a matter of time now”. Airlines want to see an applicant with drive and ambition. Someone who is going to fight for the position that they are applying for. That says a lot about a person, their character, and how they will perform on the job. The airlines are far less interested in someone who seems to be out to do the bare minimum and call it a day.
Good Luck!
Just for some history: 2500-3000 total time and 500-1000 multi used to be considered competitive to go fly a turboprop with 19 passengers on it. Now, kids are complaining that 1500 and 25 multi is too hard. Not all that long ago 7-8k total time, 1000+ turbine PIC, training department or check airman experience, extensive volunteer work, a master’s degree or higher and a ton of internal recommendations was considered to be competitive to get on at a legacy. Even with those stats you still likely needed to see them at a job fair which meant being on a computer right when registration opened to try to nab a spot at a legacy table because you couldn’t just walk up to them. If registration opened at 8am, you’d better be on at 8am. If you logged on at 8:02 it was too late. The legacy career fair tickets sold out so fast it would make Taylor Swift jealous.
Now I didn’t write the above as a “back in my day” rant. I just did it for perspective of where hiring has come from, where it could head again, and how large a swing there could be in the word “competitive”. What is enough to get that call from a legacy right now? When you get an interview invite - That is the answer. If they haven’t called yet, you don’t have enough. Keep working on yourself and your resume until they do. Build more time. Upgrade if you can. Try to get into the training department or safety related position. Volunteer outside of aviation. Don’t have a college degree? Get one. Already have a degree? Get a master’s. Maybe go add a category or class rating. Go get that seaplane or glider rating you’ve always wanted.
Bottom line - Always keep adding to the resume. Don’t get to an airline’s hiring minimums and take your foot off the gas assuming that “it’s just a matter of time now”. Airlines want to see an applicant with drive and ambition. Someone who is going to fight for the position that they are applying for. That says a lot about a person, their character, and how they will perform on the job. The airlines are far less interested in someone who seems to be out to do the bare minimum and call it a day.
Good Luck!
This shouldn’t be read as a “back in my day” rant, but rather awareness of where this profession can go and how quickly it can get there. It wasn’t that long ago that you needed 1500TT and 500 ME for a job flying a Jetstream 31 - AND you had to pay $10,000 for the training!! Before 9/11 I believe only Southwest and FedEx required 1000 PIC turbine to interview. After 9/11 anyone still hiring required sky high minimums, plus a lunar landing to even get an interview - and it stayed that way for nearly a decade! Pilots were getting a masters degree to get noticed. We are living in a very unique time where pilots are fortunate enough to skip a lot of rungs on the ladder!
Some of them will likely have won the lottery and go through the remainder of their career without any speed bumps resulting from furloughs, mergers, or bankruptcies. But the industry is rife with stories of pilots at TWA, Braniff, Eastern, USAir, even United who spent countless years moving backwards on the seniority list, spending years at a time on the street, scraping together a living and flying when they could, back at the commuters, or sometimes even flight instructing just to keep their hands on a yoke. Other pilots at places like USA 3000, Vanguard, Eastwind, ProAir, Skybus, National, Trans Meridian, PanAm numbers 2 and 3, Southeast, Emery, Kiwi… they were forced to start over elsewhere when their ride swiftly came to an end.
So yeah. Get the best qualifications you can get. The most PIC turbine, college degrees, check airman, chief pilot, fly for different kinds of operators, Alaska, Caribbean, freight, charter, corporate… turboprops… anything and everything to make yourself stand out because when the poop hits the fan and you’re standing in line with 10,000 other pilots in the same blue suit and red tie, the LAST thing you want to be is just another drone with no PIC time.
Trust me. I’ve been there.
02-15-2024, 05:47 AM
#10
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by TOGALOCK
The key to getting hired at a legacy (you’re already at a major) is realizing that published hiring minimums are just that.. *Minimums*. What is actually competitive will always be in flux. With Carl Icahn now playing in JetBlue’s sandbox and Spirit fighting for survival, there’s a good chance there’s going to be some very experienced pilots hitting the open market soon. By either their own choice, or… not. Combine that with reduced hiring (but still admittedly record hiring) it will mean that what is competitive today, will not be competitive tomorrow.
Just for some history: 2500-3000 total time and 500-1000 multi used to be considered competitive to go fly a turboprop with 19 passengers on it. Now, kids are complaining that 1500 and 25 multi is too hard. Not all that long ago 7-8k total time, 1000+ turbine PIC, training department or check airman experience, extensive volunteer work, a master’s degree or higher and a ton of internal recommendations was considered to be competitive to get on at a legacy. Even with those stats you still likely needed to see them at a job fair which meant being on a computer right when registration opened to try to nab a spot at a legacy table because you couldn’t just walk up to them. If registration opened at 8am, you’d better be on at 8am. If you logged on at 8:02 it was too late. The legacy career fair tickets sold out so fast it would make Taylor Swift jealous.
Now I didn’t write the above as a “back in my day” rant. I just did it for perspective of where hiring has come from, where it could head again, and how large a swing there could be in the word “competitive”. What is enough to get that call from a legacy right now? When you get an interview invite - That is the answer. If they haven’t called yet, you don’t have enough. Keep working on yourself and your resume until they do. Build more time. Upgrade if you can. Try to get into the training department or safety related position. Volunteer outside of aviation. Don’t have a college degree? Get one. Already have a degree? Get a master’s. Maybe go add a category or class rating. Go get that seaplane or glider rating you’ve always wanted.
Bottom line - Always keep adding to the resume. Don’t get to an airline’s hiring minimums and take your foot off the gas assuming that “it’s just a matter of time now”. Airlines want to see an applicant with drive and ambition. Someone who is going to fight for the position that they are applying for. That says a lot about a person, their character, and how they will perform on the job. The airlines are far less interested in someone who seems to be out to do the bare minimum and call it a day.
Good Luck!
Just for some history: 2500-3000 total time and 500-1000 multi used to be considered competitive to go fly a turboprop with 19 passengers on it. Now, kids are complaining that 1500 and 25 multi is too hard. Not all that long ago 7-8k total time, 1000+ turbine PIC, training department or check airman experience, extensive volunteer work, a master’s degree or higher and a ton of internal recommendations was considered to be competitive to get on at a legacy. Even with those stats you still likely needed to see them at a job fair which meant being on a computer right when registration opened to try to nab a spot at a legacy table because you couldn’t just walk up to them. If registration opened at 8am, you’d better be on at 8am. If you logged on at 8:02 it was too late. The legacy career fair tickets sold out so fast it would make Taylor Swift jealous.
Now I didn’t write the above as a “back in my day” rant. I just did it for perspective of where hiring has come from, where it could head again, and how large a swing there could be in the word “competitive”. What is enough to get that call from a legacy right now? When you get an interview invite - That is the answer. If they haven’t called yet, you don’t have enough. Keep working on yourself and your resume until they do. Build more time. Upgrade if you can. Try to get into the training department or safety related position. Volunteer outside of aviation. Don’t have a college degree? Get one. Already have a degree? Get a master’s. Maybe go add a category or class rating. Go get that seaplane or glider rating you’ve always wanted.
Bottom line - Always keep adding to the resume. Don’t get to an airline’s hiring minimums and take your foot off the gas assuming that “it’s just a matter of time now”. Airlines want to see an applicant with drive and ambition. Someone who is going to fight for the position that they are applying for. That says a lot about a person, their character, and how they will perform on the job. The airlines are far less interested in someone who seems to be out to do the bare minimum and call it a day.
Good Luck!
If you're not at (what you expect to be) your career destination airline, then keep working towards the traditional legacy metrics until you get there. Especially if you have downtime, waiting for upgrade, etc.
Chip away at that degree (masters if you already have a BA/BS).
Take the first upgrade (higher priority than education in this climate).
If you're less than about 5K TT, 3K turbine, or 2K TPIC, don't hide out on reserve and dodge flying.
Jump through the PC hoops, volunteer, etc. Anything training dept. or union is good.
Clean up your social media. In this day and age they probably expect you to have a presence but it needs to be squeeky-clean and all about civic duty and causes (extra credit for current corporate hot-button topics). Might be hard if you're young, but maybe if you can keep your real life on transient platforms not too much of it will spill over to the permanent interweb. Steer clear of politics or at least keep it on a spectrum between Sinema and AOC, no further left or right.
If you get hired before you get all the tickets punched, great... finish probation, drop out of school, and settle in as a career WB bunky if desired.
But until, then full court press. The current competitive mins won't last forever and you need momentum towards the goal posts in case they move... might still be able to make that 50 yard field goal.
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