2024 Salary Survey Thread Drift
 

How does the pay cutover from year 1 to 2 at 3 months?

Because he/she had 3 months of year 1 pay remaining after the new year? Nobody starts on Jan 1. ???

Got hired in Apr 2023.

I was under the assumption that YR 2 starts at your Month of Hire

It does. (Filler)

Im an idiot. Good day

Nah man. I assume you’re in the outside looking in. It’sa lot to digest.

For awhile I believe at AA you didn’t get a longevity bump until the anniversary you finished IOE or something. Pretty sure everyone is DOH now though.

Company I worked for didn't give you captains pay until off high mins.... I could see IOE, cause the other dude is making captains pay. But both pilots getting FO pay??? Sorry for the thread drift, triggered. And yeah, I believe you are right about the AA pay bump date.

Training pay, depending on the airline, compensation began from day one though, the final sim check, completion of OE, completion of first check after OE, or completion of the consolidation. Ancillary benefits such as hotel accommodations, during training, and travel benefits along with jump seat privileges. Some airlines were better than others, and some were worse than others.

Remember, being an educated consumer, as a prospective applicant, one has the opportunity to ask questions of pay arrangement and benefits during the interview process... Take it or leave it.

I took it becuase the company I worked for was busy going bankrupt... But that wasn't really the point. They could have had lower capatain pay rates and I would have not complained. But there is something inherently wrong about not getting paid as PIC when you are the actual PIC.

That’s bad but how would you like to give up 3 months of a higher pay rate annually for 12 years?

Exactly! That's why, in such situation, I dashed of a TBNT email/letter.

Talk about thread derail! Let's get back on subject: Should reserve days not used be considered days off?

Long call, yes
Short call, no

Standing by for people who work at companies with no long call option to tell me I’m wrong

I vote yes

We've already adjudicated that "days off" means "off", as in nonrev to Europe off.

Feel free to post unutilized reserve days as a separate line item, those can absolutely be of significant value to many people.

Agree. I've worked 2 days in the past 4 weeks (short call assigned). I've sat at home for the rest of the time. But I'm a commuter.....I've gotta be prepared to go catch a flight in the afternoon if I'm assigned a morning trip. Therefore, I can't go fishing until I'm well and truly on my off days. Just one data point to support the position that unused rsv days are not "off".

To complicate the matter further we have convertable long call at my shop so you *can be* on long call and then the next day not on long call anymore. Pretty worthless if you want to do anything substantial. Like camping, being out of cell phone range in general or driving more than a few hours from the airport and staying with friends.

I wouldn't consider that a "day off" at all. Even long call is 12 hours. You can't plan on an event like a running race or team sport on a specific day. You could get called 12 hours before something that was planned for months and miss it.

Other than doing chores around the house, grocery getting and dry cleaning it's not really great for fun life events. Because even long call non convertable reserve isn't a day off it's 1/2 of a day off.

14?
..............

You can’t plan life events on a reserve day anywhere. Long call is 14 hours. Unused reserve days are not days off but most of us have made a pretty good go of it. Crediting 90+ hours/month for a few days of flying works great for me.

Forced by seniority onto it. It makes no difference. It's still not even a full day off. It's just part of a day. That's all I'm saying.

18... ;)

I honestly don't get the consternation over wheter you can "nonrev to Europe" or "fish out of cell coverage" on a reserve day. Unless you get used, IT AIN'T WORK. And for me and my family, that's what matters.

Plus, for non-commuters, even being on SC is a non-event - though I don't object to SC being called 'work', regardless of used/not used. I bid almost exclusively reserve, and the number of times I've ever been called for a no-kidding minimum-time report is less than 1% of all the reserve assignments I've ever gotten (that goes for both LC and SC).

Some things are just not okay. Training pay till you were off OE, not okay. Company anniversary three months after DOH, for the rest of your career, absolutely bonkers.

Well... I did spend all day checking in on APC in my pajamas but they do have the pilot uniform t-shirt and black (fleece) pants. That's work! More of that grind to come tomorrow. When will it stop? Oh yeah, I still get 13 regular off days too. Europe anyone?

What about the last day of 18 LC where you weren't used that ends at 6 am before you wake up? You can fly to Europe that day. Is that a Schrödinger's cat problem?

How about we label unused reserve days as "Work from Home."

I'd argue that starts at about midnight of the last LC day (not later than 0100). There are almost zero rotations that report after 1800, fly, turn, fly back, release in the last 6 hours of your LC by midnight.

I get this is humor,but once again, it is not work.





All that said, let's move on and return to keeping this particular thread on topic.

Amen!



.

yep!


Certainly it's a QOL bump, just forced to take it one day at a time and can't go very far.


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That's what I'm talking about..... life goals.

Well done sir!


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But but you couldn’t climb Mt Everest while drinking a beer! 😂

Nicely done

with this many days off—-this bro could have a monster side hustle.

So it aint work...retrospetively. It matters to your family...after the fact. For me, that's hard to call it a day off. I can agree that it isn't work, but its harder to say it was a day off. But in the context of this thread, maybe it should be counted as a day off? Becuase getting that "day off" will depend on that airline's work rules. Meaning, airlines with better work rules (qol) will probably, on average, have more pilots no get used on reserve. And I see this thread as not only a pay comparison, but a qol comparison as well. This has become evident at FedEx where we have LC of 24 hours. But, first, that means you are number one to get put on hotel standby (yes, we have hotel standby in our contract). And second, lately they have been assigining trips (if not hotel standby) days if not weeks in advance (yes, our contract allows that for LC). That may or may not be good for the LC pilot but it certainly minimizes lineholder pilots from trading or picking up the trip.

All that to say, context matters. So count me in as someone who beleives that for the sake of better comparison, pilots should state reserve days not used out of the total awarded/picked up.

100% this.

I get it, it's nice sitting home with the family, mowing the grass, inviting the neighbors over for an impromptu dinner that afternoon, "Gosh Bob, it's almost like you never work!" etc.

But how many of you in the "unused reserve day = equals a day off" camp would be cool with the Co. saying, well since we didn't call you with a trip you didn't actually work yesterday so that day of reserve now counts as one of your 12 days off this month? I've heard of scummy Part 135 or 91 operators with scheduling practices like that but not even the worst regional tries to pull that.

Posting days off + unused LC/SC days as separate numbers is super useful. Anything else is misleading IMO.

Retroactive days off/rest is illegal in 121/117.

Regionals can't, it's illegal. Corporate bottom feeders, not subject to 117, may well try to count un-utilized on-call days as days off, retroactively. But that's mostly for contractual purposes... 135 is barely required to give you any days off to begin with and I don't think 91 requires any at all.

I'm aware, my language was too loose talking about regionals and I should have said even at the worst regionals they can't do that to you.

And that's my point. We'd all be up in arms (and rightly so) if the Co tried to call them days off after the fact because it's wrong in principle and as you point out illegal. I was trying to use that scenario to illustrate why if we don't want the Co calling it a day off we shouldn't either.

This is definitely a happenstance/perfect storm situation - Boeing delayed deliveries, shuffled routing, overstaffed - but I'll take it while it lasts!


Maybe...🤔😂 The UPA reserve changes have also made it much better. Very easy to know when a SC is coming with ladders and headroom percentage shown on the grid. The add pay for SC pick ups also helps the cause as those who live close tend to pick them up, so not many to be assigned.

I haven't worked in a month but I have fullfilled my obligation to my employer and gotten paid for it. That's all that really matters. If you choose to fly to fullfill your obligation then that's on you. Full disclosure: Flying has never really been work to me so not flying is even less real work. Call it what you like. My unused LC and SC days have real value and real QOL. We can't all do what I do or nobody would get anywhere, but I am employed and have a job. (regardless of what the neihbors or APC thinks) Being on call is not working but for purposes of the thread unused days is totally acceptable.

There are reasonable arguments for breaking out unused SC. This ain’t one of them.