Pilot showdown looms for DAL
11-14-2005 | 07:22 AM
#11
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Retired 121 Pilot Part 135 experience also
The number quoted is very misleading and most likely includes the 40% add on for benefits, retirement, medical, sick leave, etc. and as CVG767A said probably is old information and skewed to reflect overtime and who knows what else. The company is trying to get the judge and everone else to think the pilots are overpaid and not worth it. Apprently they may be succeeding by the comments in the press. And I am a retired DL pilot and its a tragedy what is going on there right now. It appears to be a race to the bottom of the pay scale for all of the legacies. IMHO
11-14-2005 | 09:47 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh
DP,
Man I don't know what kind of world that you live in but when a CRJ Captain and FO together earn a little more than a third of what an "average" Delta pilot makes, then there is something very wrong with that picture. Even an average JetBlue pilot makes less than half of what an "average" Delta pilot earns. This is just a normal market adjustment back down to reality. Good luck getting anyone to feel sorry for our friends at DAL. We are all in this together but what else do they realistically expect?? $169,393 a year ????? Those days are going going gone !!!
SkyHigh
Man I don't know what kind of world that you live in but when a CRJ Captain and FO together earn a little more than a third of what an "average" Delta pilot makes, then there is something very wrong with that picture. Even an average JetBlue pilot makes less than half of what an "average" Delta pilot earns. This is just a normal market adjustment back down to reality. Good luck getting anyone to feel sorry for our friends at DAL. We are all in this together but what else do they realistically expect?? $169,393 a year ????? Those days are going going gone !!!
SkyHigh
If you believe the company numbers then you are seeing only half the picture.
11-14-2005 | 10:25 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 511
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From: 320B
For what it's worth, I'll make about $80,000 as a M88 F/O in his sixth year at Delta. I'm on my way to the Pilot Rally in Atlanta. I'd like to keep my pay and benefits in the area of where they are right now....... maybe we will strike, maybe we won't, but someone needs to draw a line in the sand for the entire industry.... not just ourselves as individuals. I hope everyone will be doing better in the years to come, or it just won't be worth the effort. I still Love the flying, but as a mentor of mine once said, "if you don't value yourself, no one else will". Wish us luck! Tough week ahead. Tomcat
DAL M88B
SLC
DAL M88B
SLC
11-14-2005 | 12:04 PM
#15
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: 767ER capt
Hey Tomcat- Sorry to overstate your earnings. I was looking only at the year twelve payscale. I'm with you though- while I'm willing to help the company through bankruptcy, they are clearly overreaching here. I think that they see a historic opportunity lower pilot costs. They will try- it's their job.
What defies logic is their expecting us to believe that the $234 million difference in our table positions is the difference between Delta thriving and surviving.
What defies logic is their expecting us to believe that the $234 million difference in our table positions is the difference between Delta thriving and surviving.
11-15-2005 | 06:37 AM
#16
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Retired 121 pilot
Originally Posted by CVG767A
. I'm with you though- while I'm willing to help the company through bankruptcy, they are clearly overreaching here. I think that they see a historic opportunity lower pilot costs. They will try- it's their job.
What defies logic is their expecting us to believe that the $234 million difference in our table positions is the difference between Delta thriving and surviving.
What defies logic is their expecting us to believe that the $234 million difference in our table positions is the difference between Delta thriving and surviving.
I would hope your MEC carefully studies the UAL chapter 11 scenario. There are many lessons to be learned. Many lessons.
You are quite correct that the company will attempt to grab every single thing they possibly can, as chapter 11 gives them a huge hammer .... and they'll use it to their advantage as much as possible.
Also I would certainly recommend to your MEC to consider using an independant and outside consulting advisor or firm that hasn't been previously used in addition to any that you currently have or you've used in the past.
Get someone that has not been involved for a fresh outlook and opinion. Finding that special someone or firm is another matter, however.
Good luck, I think you'll need it.
11-15-2005 | 06:59 AM
#17
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: 767ER capt
I think quite a bit is happening in concert with MECs of other BK and post-BK airlines. Our MEC is trying to determine what has and hasn't worked for them. I think that we have some good guys at the MEC (and our LEC guys are awesome), but that may not be enough. We don't have an awful lot of leverage in these negotiations.
11-15-2005 | 08:51 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Bangar,
I am simply responding to a refrence made by a privious post to the reported $169,000 "average" DAL pilot wage. I agree it must be less.
SKyHigh
I am simply responding to a refrence made by a privious post to the reported $169,000 "average" DAL pilot wage. I agree it must be less.
SKyHigh
11-15-2005 | 09:59 AM
#19
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From: Retired 121 pilot
Originally Posted by CVG767A
I think quite a bit is happening in concert with MECs of other BK and post-BK airlines. Our MEC is trying to determine what has and hasn't worked for them. I think that we have some good guys at the MEC (and our LEC guys are awesome), but that may not be enough. We don't have an awful lot of leverage in these negotiations.
Didn't mean to sound like a "know it all", and apologize if that's the way my prior message came across.
11-15-2005 | 10:06 AM
#20
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Joined: Jun 2005
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The ugly reality is that this nation needs at least one big chunk of capacity to go away. After that, the rest should recover fine.
I wouldn't wish on anyone that they have to be designated the sacrificial lambs but if the Delta guys are willing to sacrifice themselves, I am willing to let them.
I wouldn't wish on anyone that they have to be designated the sacrificial lambs but if the Delta guys are willing to sacrifice themselves, I am willing to let them.
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