seaav8tor

There is not now or will there ever be a shortage of pilots anywhere.

There is now and going forward will always be a lack of desire to pay pilots a salary commensurate with the level of responsibility required for the job.

As a result innocent passengers will burn and die.

The only "Bud Lite" ad pulled over protest, was pulled because it was too close to the truth.....

This is NOT funny, it's true and the truth hurts, in this case, it kills.....

http://l1011.homestead.com/DiscountPilot.html

Do not post a response unless you have knocked on a door at 2am to inform a next of kin their loved one is dead; I have.

Do not post a reply unless you have attended 10 funerals or more in 7 days; I have.

It is very sad when safety is sourced to the lowest bidder.

Spartan07

Not to diverge, but I fail to see how attending more funerals entitles you to a more important opinion than the rest of us.

Yes, I have attended a lot of funerals... In fact, 13 in one day if you want to count combat zone memorial services. That doesn't make my opinion of low time pilots any more valid than yours.

But, I do in fact agree with you. I see it as a possibility that minimums will get lower and lower and then a low time new hire will become a low time captain seated next to a low time new hire and cause a massive loss of life. This, however, would most likely take an FAA rule change and for some reason I think that might be a little more unlikely than pay increases at regional airlines.

seaav8tor

Ok, not intended to imply that. Poor choice on my part.

Within the next few years after the MPL has "seasoned" a bit, the ATA will start pushing the FAA for a US version. If you think we are at the bottom now just wait. In the eyes of the ATA and AIRCON, you haven't seen anything yet.

Spartan07

No prob Sea

Yeah, I definately see the possibility of this getting out of hand. But then again, I can't predict the future, nobody can wether they like to admit it or not. I just really hope that at a certain point we as an industry get a handle on it...

Who knows, maybe with a democrat in office -MAYBE- things might get better. I'm not a Democrat but I am holding some optimism for the next administration.

Molon Labe

Hello Seaav8tr,(probably not correctly spelled) I didn't get quite that many funerals in one week but in 1981 I did attend 5 of them all of which were "industrial" .And in a seperate instance I did inform at about 1 in the afternoon a significant other that she would no longer get to try to create next of or some kind of kin with the affected individual who was a friend of mine..But most importantly I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.... The Race To The Bottom is so ingrained in the essence of this country that I somehow see a situation evolving that no matter how much of a "real" pilot shortage occurs the regulations will be changed to continually lower the bar. The age 65 band-Aid is one of many the MPL the most overt, and others to come who knows what they will be, only restassured in the certainty that the regulations necessary to further cheapen the cost of crewing will come. In the event that pilots gain an upper hand an the laws of supply and demand we will be precluded by the law or the political system (ie: PEB) or other unforseen impediment from being able to exploit it. The economic power of the investment class is so great that only token gains are possible in the best of times, and in less than the best of times safety is without question the domion of the low bidder.
Also my compliments to you for that post on 10 August 2007 titled How to save $5 on an airline ticket I think that is the single most important or should I say accurate statement on the profession with regards to the state of events since 1978. My hat is off to you Sir!

SkyHigh

When the day comes that I get a phone call from a major airline for an interview then we all can rejoice in the bounty of a real pilot shortage.

There is no shortage of qualified pilots only of people who are willing to work for what is currently being offered.

There is no evidence to suggest that the FAA mandated minimums of 1500 and 23 years of age for part 121 command has any connection to increased accident rates however there is plenty of evidence of complacency in older more experienced pilots and hitting the ground at a high rate of speed.

There is no pilot shortage now nor ever will be at the majors. If the regionals run low they can always make more. It only takes 6 months or less these days.

Skyhigh


"I don't smoke, drink, gamble, do drugs, or consort with women of easy virtue; I just ride motorcycles."

frozenboxhauler

Spartan,

Not to be flippant but even "high time" guys make mistakes and kill people. KLM at Tennerife and Swiss Air at Halifax come to mind immediately.

I've been told, that back in the early to mid 60's, United was hiring pilots with as little as a Private license and a promise that they would get there Comm/Inst.

I don't know that there is a simple black and white answer to this issue.
fbh

seaav8tor

I don't want to bash the new guy trying to climb the ladder and I'm not going to claim the old guy should be able to fly until age 100 because he has 30,000+ accident free hours. But clearly there is a push on each end (and in the middle) on what is acceptable to fly part 121 scheduled service.

The push is driven by money.

Low time guy wants to get a return on his/her investment, earn more money... now! Understandable.

Old guy wants/needs to earn money, lost retirement, investments gone bad, life style choices, etc. Understandable.

Guys in the middle have figured out an number of ways to keep flying when they probably should find something else to do; Medical problems, substandard performance issues, alcohol and drug problems, personal problems incompatible with the grind of flying the line, but find themselves past V1 so they keep flying. Understandable.

ATA ( airlines ) recognize the larger the pool of pilots the lower number of dollars needed to find enough takers to fill the seats. Hence the desire to "promote" the illusion of a "shortage" enticing more people to take the bait and qualify for the job. Brilliant!

Problem is none of this is "Understandable" or "Brilliant" when viewed by the family members after a crash. Part 121 ops should be held to the "Highest order of safety". There is lots of "other" flying that can be done outside part 121.

Spartan07

Kind of what I was trying to get across, But probably a little more succinct

"Wherever you go, There you are." - Chinese Proverb

JoeyMeatballs

Do you guys think many airlines (good airlines) will really want labor so cheap they they are willing to have a 200pax jet flown by a low low low time CA and a 200hr pilot with an MPL????????????? I just dont think the airlines are in the business of crashing airplanes...............................discuss