with your "you have to start somewhere" theory, name me one startup airline that has ever raised the bar for pilots...

 

It's a good friend of mine. No he's not gay, and yes he's got pictures.

 

Relax...it's a joke...but I think we're talking about different dudes.

 

I am relaxed. Thanks though.

 

SWA? Early to mid-70's launch and ridiculed by Legacy pilots even into the 80's for their pay-per-trip model.

Fed-Ex

At some point, AA, United, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern, CAL and Delta were start-ups. In fact, those redneck bubba's at Delta were not even an airline, but one of the first crop-dusting companies - Huff-Daland Dusters and they sprayed for Boowevils in Louisiana.

 

Cool. You're welcome.

 

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SWA has not raised the bar. they are on top now by default, up until then they undercut everyone else. if you don't see it that way than I guess we should be happy that it only took 30 years to catch up. isn't 30 years about the length of a career

I wasn't born when any of those other airline started but maybe you were. did they undercut everyone else and if so, how long did it take to catch up?

can you name me any airline since deregulation that has raised the bar?

 

I actually thought about this issue - that they didn't necessarily "raise" the bar...they just stayed put while others lowered the bar farther - this is a good point. As far as the Legacy carriers, no - I wasn't there. That said, I would imagine that economics being what they are they did not pay any more than they had to at the time. Juan Trippe and Howard Hughes were not great friends of labor - they benefited from regulation and the pilots benefited from a strong union. Fact of the matter is this - name ANY start-up business that offers an industry leading wage from day one when competing against numerous rivals, in ANY industry. It simply doesn't happen. Most airlines business models are similiar, with the exception of Skybus. They compete on price and service, routes, and time convienience. No one airline is going to change the technology of this business and be able to keep it propriatary so it is, in essence, purely a commodity.

 

Well said. It is academic that with regard to startups, labor representation is usually spawned by safety, quality of life and in my opinion pay last. I don't think that there are many pilots presently flying for an LCC that want to be at the bottom of the pay scales but then again I don’t know many pilots that want to be on the street waiting for the call / call back from a legacy or flying for supplemental operators (which is an entirely different kind of flying...been there and done that) or a regional when an opportunity like Air Tran, Spirit, Midwest, VA, presents itself, and will present some stability...