Fella's, I hope no one is complaining that Eos makes you ride in the most comfortable seat in the industry and sip champagne on your way back from Europe instead of wedging into a jumpseat. Eos isn't about hauling cattle, its about comfort and style. BTW no one can jumpseat in the cockpit internationally
As for the pay...as I said before once the company starts to make a profit, pay will increase. Until then, the pilots aren't just employees. They actually have a vested intrest in the success of the company.

 

The only reason to break out the QRH on Eos is you forgot to grab the NY Times in the Jetway!!!!! Mx is excellent

 

The only thing I am doing to raise the bar is trying to get through to people that flying a 757 for those rates are ridiculous. You could also go to gojet and be a street captain, but you guys don't operate on principle. The point I was trying to make was that pay will never go up as long as managements can look at outfits like this and realize people will fly the same aircraft for less.

 

UPS 2008 2nd year pay - $111.75

 

Yup, I think I mentioned that if you read the whole thing...I stated-

"Yes, UPS and FEDEX come close in second year pay but one is not hiring and one is hiring about 3 people a month and you have to go to ANC, not so fun for a guy that lives on the east coast...just my two cents.

I find it humorous how people bash these companies/pilots when really only UPS/FEDEX/SWA pay what we consider "proper wages" and only UPS is hiring at a trickle"

So once again, where can someone getting hired today make $112+/hr second year pay and not commute to ANC? Honestly, who is setting the bar besides UPS/FEDEX/SWA? What percentage of people hired into UPS or FEDEX tomorrow (if they were hiring) are going spend most of next year in the lower 48? That's a big deal to some people. Sorry but I don't think RJ F/O's have a right to talk about setting any bars (flying big jets) AND I WAS ONE FOR 2 YEARS...Funny thing is, when I got hired, our contract did set the bar and it was a shame. If you owned an airline and could get people to work for pennies, wouldn't that make great business sense in this great land of capitalism? It all goes back to a national union...

 

I am seriously trying to understand where you are coming from. Are you saying that it is ok for you to work where you want and for what wages you deem acceptable for yourself, but that it is not ok for others to do the same? I am sure that there is a reason why you chose you work for SkyWest even though they pay poverty wages.(no dis on SKW, I think that they run one of the better commuter operations) There are reasons why people work at EOS and Maxjet. if in fact you really believe in what you are saying then I guess you better be the first to set a good example and quit your job over principal. After you have quit your job please write back. We will be sure to congratuate and thank you for taking one for the advancement of the industry. Bottom line is, and I think that I speak for a lot of pilots at EOS and MaxJet, there is a lot more to a "job" than the money. I work a great schedule, fly good equipment, work with GREAT people, have happy passengers, stay in great hotels, and get paid reasonably well for it. This is SO much more important to me than being possibly slightly better paid and having the type of working environment that the United system offers.

 

What is first year FO pay and YOUR company?

 

I just think that flying 757's and 767's for what you fly them for is ridiculous. Just like SkyBus and flying the Airbus for what they fly for. Allegiant guys use the same argument with regards to low pay. They justify it by saying they are home every night and quick upgrade.

Our company is one of the better "commuters" to work for. Our first year pay is horrible. I could go to Trans States and get paid more first year per hour, but make more at SkyWest because of a minimum daily guarantee. But yes, the per hour rate is disgusting.

Being that you only have 48 seats, you obviously must charge a lot more for tickets. That is where I got the corporate comparison from. I just can't see how you think it is good for the rest of us flying for the rates you do. On a seat by seat basis, we make near United rates. If you put your aircraft to the normal capacity, I would be willing to be we make more than you. Again, on a seat by seat basis.

No matter what I say or anyone says, there will always be people who will fly for less. It's been going on since the beginning of the airlines. If you guys can justify your decision, good for you.

For the sake of my argument, we'll assume your 757 holds 150 people compared to my RJ which holds 50.

EOS First Year FO makes $0.44 per seat.

SKYW First Year FO makes $0.385 per seat.

EOS 2nd Year FO makes $0.446 per seat

SKYW 2nd Year FO makes $0.697 per seat

Again, that assumes your aircraft is configured for 150 people.

 

The seat cost per mile is not a valid argument as for what a pilot makes. A flight from ILM to JFK runs about $250 to $350 each way depending on when the ticket is purchased. That's about $24,000 gross revenue if the flight is full. The block time is about 1:50. EOS carries 48 passengers at a price of about $2,400 per seat, which translate to gross revenue of $115,200, again if seats are full with a block time of about 8:00. If both carriers have an average utilization of 16:00 per day, you can determine where who is going to make more.... even if both aircraft had the same direct operating expenses.

The bar setting thing does not start with the 757 or Airbus pilot... it starts at the bottom of the food chain... the RJ guys such like yourself. Regional guys sold themselves when they accepted such low pay to fly a jet. The low pay then flowed up to the majors who at one time owned the commuters. Perform an analysis of first through fight year pay for initial hires in the 80's to today at Delta, NW, UAL, and CAL. After inflation you will see that initial pay has dropped dramatically.

So Koolaidman... don't preach to the SKYBUS, V/A, EOS, or MAXjet guys on how they should raise the bar. The bulk of these crews are high time experienced pilots who were either furloughed, or took early retirement. You should be out their on your soapbox preaching to the entrants to the regional demanding hire entry and subsequent pay and benefits.

 

That's a very good point. With that said, I hope there is serious upside available to all flight crew members as things get better over time. Typically, only management benefits...